I will soon be reloading for my m1 carbine. I have access to 2400, w296 and imr4227 powders. I don't know anything about these powders so I am looking for information about which might be the best for my use. I will also probably load 357 mag and, in the future, 44 mag with whatever powder I use. Any help would be appreciated.
m1 carbine load
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Jack Flash
Member
Any one of those three powders would be excellent for the M1 Carbine. I have not used 296, but some people swear it is the best for this round. I have used the other two with excellent results. In your shoes, I would just pick the one that I have the most of (or is the easiest to find in your area, or costs the least) and use a current reloading manual to develop a load.
shaggist
US Veteran
M1 carbine loads
Although I haven't used 2400, either of the other two should do very well. Just follow the loading 'recipe' in whichever manual you use, and don't push the envelope.
The original carbine cartridge load was developed around 4227, but was then changed to an unknown powder not available to the public.
In the rounds I loaded yesterday, I used 14.5 grns of H-110 behind a Hornady 100gr SJ, for a predicted muzzle velocity of ~2,000 fps. This cycles my action, feeds reliably, but doesn't punish my gun, and is inexpensive to load and shoot. It should be effective on 'varmints', 2 or 4 legged, if I need to use it for such.
The carbine is a fun gun to shoot, and a very effective home defense gun, that can be easily used by any member of the family.
Although I haven't used 2400, either of the other two should do very well. Just follow the loading 'recipe' in whichever manual you use, and don't push the envelope.
The original carbine cartridge load was developed around 4227, but was then changed to an unknown powder not available to the public.
In the rounds I loaded yesterday, I used 14.5 grns of H-110 behind a Hornady 100gr SJ, for a predicted muzzle velocity of ~2,000 fps. This cycles my action, feeds reliably, but doesn't punish my gun, and is inexpensive to load and shoot. It should be effective on 'varmints', 2 or 4 legged, if I need to use it for such.
The carbine is a fun gun to shoot, and a very effective home defense gun, that can be easily used by any member of the family.
enfield
US Veteran
No, hence the different names.
I've been reloading 110 grain bullets with 14.5 grains of 296 for the carbine, and 13.5 grains for my Blackhawk, so that it shoots to point of aim.
This is not a load recommendation, just conversation.
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BruceM
Member
"No, hence the different names."
Actually, the correct answer is yes. This is easily verified by calling the manufacturer which is Hodgdon. There was a time when H110 was a surplus propellant and 296 was newly manufactured by Olin but that time is long, long gone. At that time the two powders even smelled different. That said, even when they were different, they were so close that load data was, for all intents and purposes, identical.
Bruce
Actually, the correct answer is yes. This is easily verified by calling the manufacturer which is Hodgdon. There was a time when H110 was a surplus propellant and 296 was newly manufactured by Olin but that time is long, long gone. At that time the two powders even smelled different. That said, even when they were different, they were so close that load data was, for all intents and purposes, identical.
Bruce
Another vote for 296. I have a bunch of it and it works great with any small ( standard ) rifle primer and almost any 110 gr. RNose , soft point or rnhp bullet. My load runs 1940 and is most accurite with WW 110 gr hollow sp, pt #30 C11H , if they are still available.
Use the same powder for full house .357 and .44 mag loads.
Use the same powder for full house .357 and .44 mag loads.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Bruce nailed it. They come down the same assembly lines and get put in different bottles. The same way W231 and HP-38 do.
If in doubt, call Hodgdon and verify. Many of us have on NUMEROUS occassaisions.
If in doubt, call Hodgdon and verify. Many of us have on NUMEROUS occassaisions.
My M1 Carbine load dates back to '69-'71. The original powder used in GI Carbine ammo was very similar to IMR 4227.
I used 13.5 to 14.0 grains of IMR 4227 under a Sierra 110 gr FMJ bullet. That load was prety much compressed, and the powder charge actually varied depending on the mfr of the cases I was loading. In fact, I had to tap the charged cases a bit to get the powder charge density such that the bullet would seat OK.
More importantly, the 4227 load provided enough gas to cycle the action reliably.
Noah
I used 13.5 to 14.0 grains of IMR 4227 under a Sierra 110 gr FMJ bullet. That load was prety much compressed, and the powder charge actually varied depending on the mfr of the cases I was loading. In fact, I had to tap the charged cases a bit to get the powder charge density such that the bullet would seat OK.
More importantly, the 4227 load provided enough gas to cycle the action reliably.
Noah
BruceM
Member
That's what Hodgdon wrote on their original packaging and load data.
Bruce
Bruce
W296 was developed specifically for loading Carbine ammunition.
I found this information on the CMP website while reading about M1 Carbines. The direct link is at the bottom of this post.
"As a starting reference for an accurate handload of known properties, Winchester-Western published a loading for the .30 M1 Carbine using their WW296. This loading has been quite satisfactory over a long period of time. WW296 was developed specifically for loading Carbine ammunition. The Winchester WW296 loading duplicates the original USGI ammunition specifications.
The exact Winchester load is:
Powder: Winchester WW296 15.0 grains (considered maximum, do not exceed)
Bullet: Winchester 110 grain hollow soft point
Cases: WW used for data
Primers: WSR used for data
Specifications: 1980 feet per second at 36,000 C.U.P pressure in a 20" barrel. This matches the USGI
velocity spec of 1970 feet per second and is well under the 40,000 C.U.P. pressure spec.
The load has been observed to function any carbine that would work with anything else. A rare few seem to not work well with any load.
Experienced handloaders have noted that the substitution of a full metal jacket round nose bullet such as Remington bulk or Sierra boxed makes no observable difference in velocity or pressure. Likewise, considering the accuracy potential of the Carbines, it has been noted that the use of other cases including mixed lots of Lake City LC, Winchester WW, Remington RP, and Korean PSD makes no observable difference in velocity, pressure, or accuracy. The ignition of WW296 when used in super cold weather may benefit from the substitution of small rifle magnum primers. Shooters rarely venture out in such cold weather that it matters."
http://www.thecmp.org/pdfs/CMP_Carbine_Notes_2007.pdf
I found this information on the CMP website while reading about M1 Carbines. The direct link is at the bottom of this post.
"As a starting reference for an accurate handload of known properties, Winchester-Western published a loading for the .30 M1 Carbine using their WW296. This loading has been quite satisfactory over a long period of time. WW296 was developed specifically for loading Carbine ammunition. The Winchester WW296 loading duplicates the original USGI ammunition specifications.
The exact Winchester load is:
Powder: Winchester WW296 15.0 grains (considered maximum, do not exceed)
Bullet: Winchester 110 grain hollow soft point
Cases: WW used for data
Primers: WSR used for data
Specifications: 1980 feet per second at 36,000 C.U.P pressure in a 20" barrel. This matches the USGI
velocity spec of 1970 feet per second and is well under the 40,000 C.U.P. pressure spec.
The load has been observed to function any carbine that would work with anything else. A rare few seem to not work well with any load.
Experienced handloaders have noted that the substitution of a full metal jacket round nose bullet such as Remington bulk or Sierra boxed makes no observable difference in velocity or pressure. Likewise, considering the accuracy potential of the Carbines, it has been noted that the use of other cases including mixed lots of Lake City LC, Winchester WW, Remington RP, and Korean PSD makes no observable difference in velocity, pressure, or accuracy. The ignition of WW296 when used in super cold weather may benefit from the substitution of small rifle magnum primers. Shooters rarely venture out in such cold weather that it matters."
http://www.thecmp.org/pdfs/CMP_Carbine_Notes_2007.pdf
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Jack Flash
Member
One observation about mag primers in .30 Carbine loads -
Load recipes for pistols using powders such as 2400, W296, H110, etc., often specify the use of a magnum primer. This leads some folks to assume that when using these same powders for the .30 Carbine, it naturally follows that one should also use Small Rifle Magnum Primers.
Ken Waters wrote a good article where he states that this is not necessary. His thinking is that non-magnum Small Rilfe Primers are already hotter than any Magnum Pistol Primer, so there is no need to go to the still hotter SRM Primers.
I toss this out since the material quoted from the CMP suggests that using SRM Primers is sometimes warranted. Personally, I have used both magnum and non-magnum SR Primers in Carbine loads and can't say I see any differences. The reason I tried SRMs was to see if I could get certain loads to burn any cleaner. Like I said, no real difference in that area. Then again, I have never fired my loads in extremely cold temperatures either.
Load recipes for pistols using powders such as 2400, W296, H110, etc., often specify the use of a magnum primer. This leads some folks to assume that when using these same powders for the .30 Carbine, it naturally follows that one should also use Small Rifle Magnum Primers.
Ken Waters wrote a good article where he states that this is not necessary. His thinking is that non-magnum Small Rilfe Primers are already hotter than any Magnum Pistol Primer, so there is no need to go to the still hotter SRM Primers.
I toss this out since the material quoted from the CMP suggests that using SRM Primers is sometimes warranted. Personally, I have used both magnum and non-magnum SR Primers in Carbine loads and can't say I see any differences. The reason I tried SRMs was to see if I could get certain loads to burn any cleaner. Like I said, no real difference in that area. Then again, I have never fired my loads in extremely cold temperatures either.
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enfield
US Veteran
"No, hence the different names."
Actually, the correct answer is yes. This is easily verified by calling the manufacturer which is Hodgdon. There was a time when H110 was a surplus propellant and 296 was newly manufactured by Olin but that time is long, long gone. At that time the two powders even smelled different. That said, even when they were different, they were so close that load data was, for all intents and purposes, identical.
Bruce
Well, that's not the least bit confusing, is it? I apologize if I gave anyone the wrong info.
Col Defender
Member
There's a good article on the Civilian Marksmanship Forum CMP Sales with a number of recommendations that I followed. First was to trim every case every time to 1.290" and also to use "max loads" so that is what I did. (Also the only instance in which I've ever used a "max" load in 25 years of reloading.)
My recipe for a 110gr FMJ bullet is 14.9 grains of W-296 for a book muzzle velocity of 2000 fps. Cartridge length is 1.680". Works well for me!
Have fun.
Steve
My recipe for a 110gr FMJ bullet is 14.9 grains of W-296 for a book muzzle velocity of 2000 fps. Cartridge length is 1.680". Works well for me!
Have fun.
Steve
bmcgilvray
Member
I once ran a series of tests in my M1 Carbine, using powders that were considered most suitable. These loads were worked up to max or near max using Remington 6 1/2 primers. I don't think I've ever tried any small rifle magnum primers for anything I load.
Sierra FMJ RN 110 gr.: 14.0 gr. H110: MV 1902 fps, ME 882
Sierra FMJ RN 110 gr.: 14.5 gr. Win 296: MV 1870 fps, ME 852
Sierra FMJ RN 110 gr.: 15.0 gr. IMR 4227: MV 1685 fps, ME 692
Sierra FMJ RN 110 gr.: 13.5 gr. 2400: MV 1813 fps, ME 801
I generally use H110 as it is also my favorite .44 Magnum powder, my Carbine seemed to like it well, and it was said to have been developed expressly for the .30 Carbine round. I have also used a lot of 2400 in loading for the .30 Carbine.
In the for-what-it-is-worth department here's how the same loads chronographed when used in my father's .30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk with 7 1/2-inch barrel.
Sierra FMJ 110 gr.: 14.0 gr. H110: MV 1382 fps, ME 469
Sierra FMJ 110 gr.: 14.5 gr. Win 296: MV 1358 fps, ME 449
Sierra FMJ 110 gr.: 15.0 gr. IMR 4227: MV 1196 fps, ME 348
Sierra FMJ 110 gr.: 13.5 gr. 2400: MV 1334 fps, ME 434
Back in the late 1970s I called Hodgdon's with a couple of questions and Bruce Hodgdon took the call. I asked him if H 110 and W 296 were the same thing and he answered with an enigmatic "very similar."
Sierra FMJ RN 110 gr.: 14.0 gr. H110: MV 1902 fps, ME 882
Sierra FMJ RN 110 gr.: 14.5 gr. Win 296: MV 1870 fps, ME 852
Sierra FMJ RN 110 gr.: 15.0 gr. IMR 4227: MV 1685 fps, ME 692
Sierra FMJ RN 110 gr.: 13.5 gr. 2400: MV 1813 fps, ME 801
I generally use H110 as it is also my favorite .44 Magnum powder, my Carbine seemed to like it well, and it was said to have been developed expressly for the .30 Carbine round. I have also used a lot of 2400 in loading for the .30 Carbine.
In the for-what-it-is-worth department here's how the same loads chronographed when used in my father's .30 Carbine Ruger Blackhawk with 7 1/2-inch barrel.
Sierra FMJ 110 gr.: 14.0 gr. H110: MV 1382 fps, ME 469
Sierra FMJ 110 gr.: 14.5 gr. Win 296: MV 1358 fps, ME 449
Sierra FMJ 110 gr.: 15.0 gr. IMR 4227: MV 1196 fps, ME 348
Sierra FMJ 110 gr.: 13.5 gr. 2400: MV 1334 fps, ME 434
Back in the late 1970s I called Hodgdon's with a couple of questions and Bruce Hodgdon took the call. I asked him if H 110 and W 296 were the same thing and he answered with an enigmatic "very similar."
Grayfox
US Veteran
I've had excellent results with both 2400 and IMR4227 using the Remington 110gr JSP which I buy in bulk. While 2400 works well, it tends to be a bit dirty in my rifles. So I've settled on IMR4227 as my powder of choice for the .30 Carbine.
