M25 -7, 45 Colt 240gr LSWC & Unique

[Skip Sackett]

I really like this new to me revolver!

The caliber in a double action is new to me too and I am having a BLAST (pun intended) shooting it!

I have a Ruger 45 caliber convertible that I am going to be reserving for those "Linebaugh" type of loads. Oh, this Smith will see a few of them but, I am having fun shooting "normal" 45Colt loads from it.

I loaded up some of my 240gr LSWC, H&G #502 cast from wheel weights and lubed with White Label Lube's Carnuba Red (2700) and sized to .452". They had a firm crimp and were lit off with a standard large pistol primer from Wolf. The charge was 9.0gr of Unique.

The results were very good. Here are the chronograph results:
Low 864fps
High 899fps
Avg 886fps
ES 34fps
SD 14fps

Here is a shot of a target with these loads. Shot at 15 yards, single action.

There are two real groups here. A lower one and an higher one. One thing I noticed with this revolver is that it shot real high with 240gr + bullets. If I loaded it with my 270gr RCBS copy, 280gr+, it shot so high that lowering the sight until it bottomed out gave me groups consistently 4" + high at 25 yards!
I used AutoCad and did like Grandpa always told me to do when I came upon a difficult problem, I drew it out.

Using the 4" number at 25 yards and the distance between the sights, I figured out that I needed to get the sights to be .030" different. Either the front sight needed to be taller or the rear one lower. Since the front sight is not pinned or a quick release, I didn't want to mess with it. So, very carefully and taking measurements often, I filed off .030" and found that I didn't even need to make any adjustments! Used cold blue to cover up the metal and should be good to go!

Happy camper! I guess I need to confess something too. For years and years, I had absolutely NO use for Unique. Well, this is one caliber where I think it does a great job. In the 45 Colt, it isn't a one size fits all, it just seems to fit!

 

[thomasinaz]

Nice groups!

Looks like old Unique comes through again. (I'm sure you had some part in this also. ) I think Unique powder is best in these big cases. There are newer, cleaner powders, but for the 45 Colt this is a good one. Enjoy that new 45.

 

[michael thornton]

im shooting a 252 cast swc out of my 45/8 ruger black hawk and it shoots great, thinking about dropingn it down from 9.0 to 8.0 unique just to see if it shoots better?

 

[tdan]

Skip..............Sounds like you are discovering the legendary accuracy of that 25-7 n-frame platform. My standard 45Colt load until about a year ago was 9.0gr. of Unique when shooting a 255gr. LSWC. I then found out about Titegroup for loading that big 45Colt case. 6.3 gr. of Titegroup with that same 255g.r bullet gave me average velocity of 815, but the astounding thing was that I had an ES of 12-15 fps. I was amazed how that small amount of powder burned so consistently in that huge case. My 625-5 will shoot groups like your target at 25 yards. I'm confident your 25-7 will do the same. Before you get too exited about that Unique load, try a little Titegroup. Titegroup and lead bullets in the 45Colt go together like mashed potatoes and gravy, IMHO!

By the way, how about some pics of that 240gr. bullet that your gun shoots so well. I am not familiar with that particular H&G bullet.

 

[Sprefix]

Welcome to the Long Colt fray.................

 

[ddixie884]

The moss is showing on my horns, but I like Unique in big cases!

 

[Skip Sackett]

No offense meant but.........................

Skip..............Sounds like you are discovering the legendary accuracy of that 25-7 n-frame platform.

I'm confident your 25-7 will do the same. Before you get too exited about that Unique load, try a little Titegroup. Titegroup and lead bullets in the 45Colt go together like mashed potatoes and gravy, IMHO!

By the way, how about some pics of that 240gr. bullet that your gun shoots so well. I am not familiar with that particular H&G bullet.

Here is a picture of the H&G #502. It is of the "Keith" type of design. I'm not sure he had anything to do with it but......it has some of his more famous features anyway.
The one on the right:

Here it is loaded for my M625JM with a Speer #8 load of SR4756 for about 1100fps out of the 4" tube!

As for the suggestion for using Titegroup, thanks but um, no thanks. Not trying to be mean but I have no desire to have that little bit of powder in such a big case. The powder may not care but you could easily fit a quadruple charge in the 45 Colt and still not overfill the case!

I've tried Titegroup in a few of the big cases. Like the 500S&W with reduced loads. It worked OK but again, just not enough in the case to give me an adequate level of comfort. One thing it does do more than Unique, it burns much hotter. After a bunch of rounds with Unique, I could still touch the barrel with no discomfort. I know that cannot be said for Titegroup.

Just me though. I'm not picking just on Titegroup either. AA#2, Bullseye and a bunch of other fast powders aren't going to find their way into any of my 45Colt loading either and I really like both of the powders I mentioned! Come to think of it, I haven't really given SR4756 a good go at it! Maybe that will be next!

p.s. Thanks Spre.
Dixie, great minds, same frequency!

 

[Snapping Twig]

Good shooting Skip!

Here's some food for thought - Try W231 with that 255g boolit.

7 ~ 7.5g ought to do it. Put a right smile on your face no doubt.

Like you, I typically use 9g Unique, but before I had any, I used W231.

 

[BROKEN HAND]

I have a 25 also. It is one of my favorites. I have found winchester 231 to be a really accurate load at 8 grains behind a 255 swc. This is one of John Taffins pet loads and shoots well in my smith as well as a ruger bisley vaquero. I also have a big jug of unique around. Just got to love a 45 colt.

 

[Hammerdown77]

Try 13 grains of HS-6 under that bullet. It's one of Linebaugh's personal favorites, and it shoots like a laser in my Blackhawks.

7.1 of W231/HP-38 is another extremely accurate, standard pressure load. 8 grains is a Linebaugh favorite.

9 grains of Universal Clays for a cleaner equivalent to your Unique load.

Also had really good luck with Power Pistol in the 8.5 - 9.5 grain range.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Thanks but.....

Try 13 grains of HS-6 under that bullet. It's one of Linebaugh's personal favorites, and it shoots like a laser in my Blackhawks.

7.1 of W231/HP-38 is another extremely accurate, standard pressure load. 8 grains is a Linebaugh favorite.

9 grains of Universal Clays for a cleaner equivalent to your Unique load.

Also had really good luck with Power Pistol in the 8.5 - 9.5 grain range.

I am not going to switch to any of the powders you have mentioned, friend. In the bigger cases, I like to have fill, as full as can be. As for being clean, at 9.0gr, there is no issue with cleanliness.

I've got to be careful. I hope Tony isn't around when I say this. HS-6 needs a magnum primer and I haven't had the results others have had with it. It is a good powder.

I am going to stick with Unique for these types of loads. In fact, I may have to purchase my first "keg" of it real soon!

Thanks for the suggestions though.

 

[Hammerdown77]

I am not going to switch to any of the powders you have mentioned, friend. In the bigger cases, I like to have fill, as full as can be. As for being clean, at 9.0gr, there is no issue with cleanliness.

Well, Universal is sand colored, not black, so it not only gives you good case fill, but it's also easy to see in the case!

I went through jugs of Unique and then tried Universal. Given the choice between the two, I like that Universal gives me the same performance with the same load data, and soots up the works a little less. But I've used Unique in everything and have no problem buying more. They are both great "do all" powders.


Have you tried Trailboss in the .45 Colt yet? You can fill the whole case with that one!

 

[Frank237]

In my M25-7 5" .....

9.0 of UNIQUE, WLP primer and either of my 250-260 gr SWC's all work fine in my 25-7. Very accurate.

BIG surprise though was when I found a box of some old Colt SAA level loads I had loaded way back in the early 90's with 6.0 grs of Winchester 452AA...which is basically (or exactly) TRAP 100 powder.

Loaded with the traditional hollow base, soft lead 255 gr conical pt Cowboy slug. These loads shot like .38 Wadcutters in a K-38! So accurate I couldn't believe it.

The slugs were RP bulk pack Colt slugs I bought way back...

Then again...this 25-7 and my other .45 Colt an FA M-83 ....neither have been picky with loads...both very accurate.

Great "obsolete" cartridge isn't it? LOL.

FN in MT

 

[Vulcan Bob]

Good shooting! Glad you got the elevation problems solved. I have 25-5 four inch that shot so high with 255's that I had a smith install a new sight for me. Unique with a firm crimp works very well in the 45 Colt.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Want a tad more velocity.

Have you tried Trailboss in the .45 Colt yet? You can fill the whole case with that one!

I have tried it in other calibers. Really unimpressed with that powder! I wanted my bullets to do more than "dribble" out of the barrel!

Frank,
It is getting a little gray around the temples, isn't it?

Thanks Bob for the kind words. I think I really like this caliber and firearm. The bigger front sight blade just seemed counter productive to me. While it does fix the problem, it does little to enhance the ability of getting it out of the holster! (or, from being stuck inside your waistband, for that matter! )
This cost me nothing but time and a little dab of "bluing".


I've got the cases all ready for another "go 'round". Just need a touch more Unique!

 

[Hammerdown77]

I have tried it in other calibers. Really unimpressed with that powder! I wanted my bullets to do more than "dribble" out of the barrel!

I tried it in .38 Special, and was unimpressed. Weak velocity and high ES. And it wasn't too accurate.

In the .45 Colt however, I had good results. I have a Cimarron Model P that is very finicky about which loads it will shoot to POA, and Hodgdon's max load of 5.8 gr. Trailboss shot right to point of aim in that gun. Chrono'd low 700 fps out of a 5.5" barrel with 250 gr. RNFP bullet. Not scorching, but not bunny fart either.

That 5.8 load is only about 3/4s of the case full, so there's definitely more room to load up. I tried some higher loadings and the Cimarron started printing them several inches left, which it does most of the time without the right load. So I left it at 5.8 gr. In the Blackhawks, though, I'd like to try some "load to the bottom of the bullet" loads and measure velocity and groupings.

It's definitely not the choice if you are looking for velocity, though. (cough) Power Pistol (cough).

 

[tdan]

Skip.............There are plenty of suitable powders that you can double charge in a case the size of the 45Colt. You simply have to visually check your cases using responsible reloading practices. Personally, I have never noticed any "extra heat" from my barrels using Titegroup. This powder was specifically developed to be case position insensitive in large capacity cases, especially low pressure cases like the 45Colt. You can either check out 21'st century powder technology or be content to reside in the last century...........just trying to get you to take that little baby step.

By the way, I agree with you on Trail Boss. This is a gimmick powder designed to spit out wimp loads for those cowboy shooters shooting light 200gr. plinking loads in their SAA's. I've tried Trail Boss "cheerios". Nothing delivers in my 45Colt's shooting a "traditional" weight bullet like Titegroup. It is simply that damn good!

 

[Skip Sackett]

Oh, brother, I like it in the last century! Give me the old time way!

You can either check out 21'st century powder technology or be content to reside in the last century...........just trying to get you to take that little baby step.

Dan,
Glad we agree on two things: I am stuck in the last century(no problem with that!) and our opinion about TrailBoss.

See, great minds are on the same frequency! (Just not going to have Titegroup in anything I load, um, nope, nothing!

 

[tdan]

Awwww Skip.............You say you won't give Titegroup a try, but for how long. You are a handloader. One of the reasons you handload is to get the satisfaction that you have developed "THE LOAD" that gives the maximum accuracy from your guns. You will get that flyer (I saw those targets) that will make you wonder...........was it me or my load??? You will eventually succumb to that possibility of what if my loads were all with 15fps??? Just how tight would my 25-7 group????.............Something to mull over!...............best regards...........tdan