M41 Performance Centre, QC issues ?

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leinster lad

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Hi Guys, just after your opinion on these couple of photos of my M14 PC.
Irregular wear on the breech block, where it slides over the hammer.
Poor machining on the inside surface of the slide.

Should I be concerned ? Or am I just being fussy ?

Breech%20block%20wear.jpg

Slide%20machining%20faults.jpg

IMG_2797.jpg

Frame%20scuffs.jpg
 
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Once I get the barrel replaced, I might do a bit of "blue-printing" "tuning" and "Polishing" myself.
 
I would be upset with my 41 also if it was displaying marks like that especially for what they cost nowadays. Yes I would also call S&W to speak to them about replacing it for sure.
 
My 1998 M41 doesn't show that wear pattern on the inner slide/frame side wear.
 
If you are unhappy, call them and send it back. If it functions, they may do nothing. They aren't too concerned with the cosmetic finish of the non-visible internals if the gun works.

They sure don't make 'em like they used to, but I am afraid, if they did, few of us could afford them!
 
That "mark" on the inside of the slide is actually a raised area of metal, like that face was not finished off properly from machining.
The pistol works very very well ( if you don't count the bullet tumbling issue)
I've put at least a 1000 rounds ( CCI standard ) thru it and would have had a max of 6 FTF, FTE.
So it is a very reliable firearm.
My concerns are that for a "premium grade" pistol, the finish in some areas is down right amature.
I also have a Sig P226 x5 L1 and the fit and finish on it is amazing.
Just what I would expect from a premium grade pistol.

It's like comparing a new S class Mercedes Benz with a 1976 Pinto ..........

How is it that a premium grade S&W pistol can have these issues ??
Living in Australia does not help as the distributor does not even have stock.
I have been waiting for a replacement barrel ( tumbling issue ) for nearly 8 months now..... still waiting.
So the thought of sending it back "state side" sort of worries me time frame wise.

When the replacement barrel arrives, I will be sending the complete pistol to the distributor ( Grycol ) for assessment.
Pretty sure I know what the will say.......
 
I think that with the aging and retiring and dying of S&W's old fitters and finishers, just about nothing they make now is guaranteed to be right when they ship it. The Performance Center isn't what is used to be, either. It used to build guns way above normal production standards but now, it seems they just make unusual variants of their standard products with non-standard features and call it good.

I know it's aggravating when an expensive product arrives in less-than-expected condition, especially in your case, where returning it to the factory is so difficult. I hope you find a solution.

Are you aware that when you type, you don't have an Australian accent?
 
But I hear what you are saying.
I guess it would be easier to buy a new slide and breech ( and barrel while I am at it )
Then completely strip the frame, de-burr and polish.
Reassemble and at least know that it is now a lovely gun.
 
Shouldn't have too though........

I would expect it on a colt......... but I didn't buy a colt.....
 
OK, I finally remembered to take mine out of the safe and look at it and it is showing no wear at all. To be honest I haven't shot it much, maybe 100 rounds, because I've been tied up on other projects, plus like many other parts of the nation it's been hot and sticky here. That stuff aside, your pistol definitely has issues.
 
leinster lad said:
Hi Guys, just after your opinion on these couple of photos of my M14 PC.
Irregular wear on the breech block, where it slides over the hammer.
Poor machining on the inside surface of the slide.

Should I be concerned ? Or am I just being fussy ?


After reading your comments I decided to have a quick look at mine. It certainly doesn't look as worn as your slide is. I agree with everyone else that you should get S&W on the phone about this issue.
Click to expand...
 
leinster lad
Sorry to read/see your 41 problems. Poorer work than I have seen in a while, especially out of the "Performance Center", but S&W 41 quality problems have been reported here and RFC on production for the last several years. Basically a lack of consistency as it appears to be a random problem - not piece after piece when the basic process fails. problems with barrels, slides, extractors, ejectors and mags tend to pop upon a routine basis. Apparently a whole batch of mags were run out of spec one time. As noted elsewhere, doubtful that cosmetic items will get attention, but failures should be corrected by the factory. Good luck!!!!
 
***** UPDATE ****

So it looks like my replacement barrel has arrived in Aus ( only took 14 months )
Sent my M41 PC to the Aussie distributor yesterday.
Hopefully the new barrel is 100% and they can sort out the other QC issues that I have.

I'll keep you posted :)
 
leinster lad said:
***** UPDATE ****

So it looks like my replacement barrel has arrived in Aus ( only took 14 months )
Sent my M41 PC to the Aussie distributor yesterday.
Hopefully the new barrel is 100% and they can sort out the other QC issues that I have.

I'll keep you posted :)
Click to expand...

14 months? Must have sent it by canoe! :eek:
 
Army ignores S&W......

In today's news.....S&W was NOT asked by the US military to submit design for a new sidearm. Those that were selected were all foreign arms concerns. Quality being questioned?
 
TheoW said:
In today's news.....S&W was NOT asked by the US military to submit design for a new sidearm. Those that were selected were all foreign arms concerns. Quality being questioned?
Click to expand...

Naw, probably the Military wasn't interested in Model 41's. If they still made the Model 46, it might be a different story. :p
 
leinster lad said:
***** UPDATE ****

So it looks like my replacement barrel has arrived in Aus ( only took 14 months )
Sent my M41 PC to the Aussie distributor yesterday.
Hopefully the new barrel is 100% and they can sort out the other QC issues that I have.

I'll keep you posted :)
Click to expand...

Contacted the Aussie distributor yesterday asking about my M41 PC.

He must have skipped the "communication classes" at management school ........

Anyways, after some gentle prodding it appears that they have....

replaced the barrel ( didn't say what they found wrong with the original )

replaced the bolt ( didn't say why )

repaired the slide ( didn't say what or why )

Hopefully I can get some more detailed info, maybe a copy of the work sheet ??

Will be test fired next week and returned to my LGS.

Fingers crossed she will now shoot like she is meant to :o
 
leinster, i'm also an aussie and have the same taste in pistols, and own a P226X5L1 and a M41 :)
 
Hey BJ343, you have good taste in pistols my friend :)
I have the P226X5L1 in 9mm and the M41 Performance Centre.
Both are sensational guns and shoot way way better than me !

Currently exploring the prototyping of an adapter plate that replaces the rear sight on the X5, to mount a little red dot ( Buriss FF 3 )

Anyways, for all of you who have been wondering about my M41 barrel saga......

I just got it back this morning !!!
and it is looking fine :)

New barrel, new bolt and extractor, and they have cleaned up the daggy machining on the slide really well.
No work report, so I really do not know what they found to be wrong / faulty.
Cannot fault their gun-smithing. top notch.
However..... they really do need to improve on their customer service / communication skills....
and with the ease of email etc these days, there really is no excuse.

Off to the range tomorrow.
Hopefully the new barrel shoots straight.

I'll let you all know !!
 
WE all have our fingers crossed for you and hope you have a really Nice Day to-morrow with your 41. If it shoots as good as it looks then I suspect you will be a Happy man for sure. Always nice to see a Happy ending. Merry Christmas also Mate from Canada as well.
 
Odd, but there appears to be a line running down the center of the breech block, along the top. That implies it was cast to net shape, perhaps as a MIM part with no further machining on that surface. The recessed areas shown in your photo would correspond to areas of incomplete fill if this were the case. Can you verify whether the surface is not flat in that area?
 
That barrel and block assembly are back at a shop in Australia somewhere I believe as they have repaired his gun with new parts. I doubt he has access to them anymore.
 
So listeners.... the saga continues......

Went to the range and fitted my Burris FF3 onto the rail.
better sight it in before the comp right ?

So I set up a target table and sand bag on one of the practice ranges.

Loaded 3 rounds into a magazine and inserted.

Got settled and lined up the dot on the 10 ring.

Gently pressed the slide release lever to chamber the first round..........

Well, the round did not even get into the chamber ! *** ???

Cleared the pistol and had a look.
Looks like the tip of the projectile is getting caught on the top of the feed ramp..... hmmm......

Cleared the pistol and removed the barrel for better look.......

I believe the pictures below tell the whole story.

To,say that I am disappointed would be the understatement of the year.

What the actual flock ???
This is a BRAND NEW BARREL , a top of the line Performance Centre version as well.

Looks like it never made it to the machining / finishing department. Maybe they were in a hurry to ship it out to me ?









I waited 13 months to get this replacement barrel to the Aussie distributor.
I waited 3 weeks for them to "repair" it
I waited 3 more weeks while the found time to "test fire" it.

It then turned up at my gun shop without any word from them that it was on its way.

There is NO WAY that they even attempted to test fire, as it will not chamber a round.

I am lost for words...........................
 
Sure, I could just polish out the roughness and nip off that little lip at the top of the ramp, where it becomes the chamber.
Heck, I could even pay a local gun smith to do it....

I really do not know.

What I DO know is that I will contact S&W for a please explain.

At the moment, I am quite angry........
 
I am sorry to hear that now this has happened to you as well. That barrel could not have ever been anywhere's near the Quality control dept at all. Someones head should roll over this ridiculous mistake. This is very POOR Business dealings for sure.
 
andyo5 ...Drafting an email as we speak. I have their international managers direct email address....
I am hesitant to really give them a serve though, as I do not want a negative outcome.
But you are right Barrie, it looks like it never even got to the QC dept ( or the finishing shop ! )
The Aussie dealer ( who fitted the new barrel ) really should have known better...

looks like I should have brought a Pardini....

Anyone with a M41 , can you please look at the feed ramp and tell me if it is factory polished, or just finished nice and smooth ???
 
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