I have a M&P 40 pistol and while shooting my thumb hits the mag release barely and releases the mag. I could probably change my grip but i shoot really well with the way i hold it and do not want to change. I would like to know if there is a way to make the mag release harder to push or should i just shorten it? thanks
magazine releasing unexpectly
- Thread starter unlimicon
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
Spotteddog
Member
First, WELCOME!
I suppose that if a severe case, you could always do what my L/H Son does when shooting his 1911'. He uses his left index finger to drop the magazine and trip the slide stop. He never has a mag drop problem even though he's gripping the frame from the same side as the release button is on. So, you could try the ambidextrous magazine release feature?
I suppose that if a severe case, you could always do what my L/H Son does when shooting his 1911'. He uses his left index finger to drop the magazine and trip the slide stop. He never has a mag drop problem even though he's gripping the frame from the same side as the release button is on. So, you could try the ambidextrous magazine release feature?
If you would permit a comment about technique. Barring a physical handicap, holding the pistol correctly is really the solution to this.
If your thumb rests on the mag release, there is going to be a problem regardless of release modifications.
The most difficult people to deal with in handgun classes are the "experienced" shooters who hold dearly to bad habits. The most extreme case I have encounted is the one who decided he should pull the trigger with his "social finger" instead of his trigger finger. His rationale for bad shooting at anything other than point-blank was "the 1911 is designed wrong."
YouTube - How to shoot a pistol.
handgunner356
Member
There seemed to be a problem with some of the early M&Ps' where they did replace the mag release. They hardly required much to drop the mag. I replaced two on early guns and bent the mag catch spring back adding more tension on one other that solved the problem.
Good point 356. Now that you mention it, I do recall some defective early M&Ps that would drop the mag for no good reason. Obviously, if the gun is defective, S&W will repair it under warranty.
It should take a good healty push to release the mag.
It should take a good healty push to release the mag.
We were told that an early batch of mag catches were discovered to have improperly hardened steel inserts which could quickly wear down and allow the mag to be released unintentionally.
We were told back late in '07 that they had sent out new mag catches to anyone who had a gun who reported such a problem and that the problem had been resolved with the newer parts by that time.
If you call S&W they'll probably send you a new mag catch if you're comfortable with replacing it yourself using the instructions in the manual (since it can be removed and reversed by an owner).
Another issue to consider is that some folks might have hands of a size which just doesn't fit well regarding the location of the mag catch, or who use a grip technique better suited to another platform (different mag catch style and location).
We were told back late in '07 that they had sent out new mag catches to anyone who had a gun who reported such a problem and that the problem had been resolved with the newer parts by that time.
If you call S&W they'll probably send you a new mag catch if you're comfortable with replacing it yourself using the instructions in the manual (since it can be removed and reversed by an owner).
Another issue to consider is that some folks might have hands of a size which just doesn't fit well regarding the location of the mag catch, or who use a grip technique better suited to another platform (different mag catch style and location).
Here is a picture of how i hold my gun. My thumb is directly on the mag release. My left hand might be a little higher when i actually shoot it. If this is a common problem I'll contact Smith & Wesson. I've already bent the mag release spring to make it a little stiffer so i'm ready for more serious mods or a swap from the factory. Thanks for all the input. My only salution without a mod is a thicker backstrap, but the small fits so good. I hit dead on every time till the mag pops out.
I try to avoid making any suggestions to folks unless I can be alongside them when they're experiencing something they consider a problem and I can try to see what's happening myself.
There was this time I was helping teach a class for some CCW folks and working with them on a range. There was this one older right-handed gent who was experiencing his magazine dropping from of his PPK/s at least once every mag load. He appeared to be taking it in stride, but I felt it was potentially problematic in a dedicated defensive gun and asked him about it. He said he'd owned the gun for many years and that it had always had that 'problem'. The mag catch felt normally tensioned and exhibited good movement when I checked it.
I stood alongside him for a bit and watched his hands during some firing. Before he fired the gun the mag catch button wasn't being touched by a finger or thumb, although he was one of those folks who, for whatever reason, used a crossed thumbs grip.
When he fired the gun, however, and the gun whipped back and down, his left thumb tightened and appeared to push inward ... just as his thumbs were lazily following the rise and whip of the gun in his hands ... and his thumb perfectly shifted to reach the mag catch button ... and depressed it. The mag fell free of the gun. When the recoil impulse was finished his hands (and thumbs) realigned themselves where they'd originally been positioned, meaning away from the mag catch. Weirdest thing I'd seen for a while.
I pulled the fellow off to the side and explained what I'd seen and suggested he change his thumb position. He did ... and for the rest of the course-of-fire his chronic 'problem' of many year's duration was suddenly gone. He expressed himself quite well, and animatedly, when it came to figuratively kicking himself for not having realized the actual cause of the problem years ago and correcting his grip to accommodate the little gun he liked so much.
My point? The side, shape and configuration of some guns might not lend themselves as well to some folks when it comes to hand size & finger reach ... or how some folks have accustomed themselves to holding a handgun.
It might be as easy as calling S&W and getting a new mag catch button (if your gun is old enough to have one of the early mag catches, and that's actually the problem). I couldn't venture a guess unless I could handle and examine your gun & mag catch.
It might be something that can be addressed by changing your thumb position a bit. Dunno. I'm not there to see it firsthand, and see how your thumb & fingers may be tightening and moving during recoil.
If it were your thumb's position, and thumb tension related to gripping the gun during recoil, you wouldn't be the first person to have discovered a particular pistol platform/model which had the mag catch button positioned, in relation to your hand and grip style, where it became disadvantageous during live-fire.
There was this time I was helping teach a class for some CCW folks and working with them on a range. There was this one older right-handed gent who was experiencing his magazine dropping from of his PPK/s at least once every mag load. He appeared to be taking it in stride, but I felt it was potentially problematic in a dedicated defensive gun and asked him about it. He said he'd owned the gun for many years and that it had always had that 'problem'. The mag catch felt normally tensioned and exhibited good movement when I checked it.
I stood alongside him for a bit and watched his hands during some firing. Before he fired the gun the mag catch button wasn't being touched by a finger or thumb, although he was one of those folks who, for whatever reason, used a crossed thumbs grip.
When he fired the gun, however, and the gun whipped back and down, his left thumb tightened and appeared to push inward ... just as his thumbs were lazily following the rise and whip of the gun in his hands ... and his thumb perfectly shifted to reach the mag catch button ... and depressed it. The mag fell free of the gun. When the recoil impulse was finished his hands (and thumbs) realigned themselves where they'd originally been positioned, meaning away from the mag catch. Weirdest thing I'd seen for a while.
I pulled the fellow off to the side and explained what I'd seen and suggested he change his thumb position. He did ... and for the rest of the course-of-fire his chronic 'problem' of many year's duration was suddenly gone. He expressed himself quite well, and animatedly, when it came to figuratively kicking himself for not having realized the actual cause of the problem years ago and correcting his grip to accommodate the little gun he liked so much.
My point? The side, shape and configuration of some guns might not lend themselves as well to some folks when it comes to hand size & finger reach ... or how some folks have accustomed themselves to holding a handgun.
It might be as easy as calling S&W and getting a new mag catch button (if your gun is old enough to have one of the early mag catches, and that's actually the problem). I couldn't venture a guess unless I could handle and examine your gun & mag catch.
It might be something that can be addressed by changing your thumb position a bit. Dunno. I'm not there to see it firsthand, and see how your thumb & fingers may be tightening and moving during recoil.
If it were your thumb's position, and thumb tension related to gripping the gun during recoil, you wouldn't be the first person to have discovered a particular pistol platform/model which had the mag catch button positioned, in relation to your hand and grip style, where it became disadvantageous during live-fire.
Having looked at the pictures, may I make another comment about your grip?
Aside from being awkward and probably causing the mag release, there is a safety problem.
In the NRA classses and CHL classes I do, and in the IDPA and USPSA matches, people are not allowed to use any form of the"cup and saucer" grips on semi-automatics. Why? In the event of a blown cartridge, the hot gas and metal particles blow down the magazine well into the cupped hand. When the pistol is held correctly, the magazine and debis usually blow out of the gun without taking out the shooter's hand.
Can't happen? Blown cartridges are seen often enough to be a concern, especially at a sanctioned match in which over 100,000 rounds are shot in a weekend. It only has to happen once to a shooter to ruin his hand.
Aside from being awkward and probably causing the mag release, there is a safety problem.
In the NRA classses and CHL classes I do, and in the IDPA and USPSA matches, people are not allowed to use any form of the"cup and saucer" grips on semi-automatics. Why? In the event of a blown cartridge, the hot gas and metal particles blow down the magazine well into the cupped hand. When the pistol is held correctly, the magazine and debis usually blow out of the gun without taking out the shooter's hand.
Can't happen? Blown cartridges are seen often enough to be a concern, especially at a sanctioned match in which over 100,000 rounds are shot in a weekend. It only has to happen once to a shooter to ruin his hand.
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2006
- Messages
- 7,760
- Reaction score
- 7,169
The photo helps somewhat, but direct observation would be better. Having said that, the grip is adapted to the weapon*, not the weapon to the grip. Given your hand size, the shooting hand thumb points slightly downward. The thumb needs to be parallel to the slide and have the end turned down to clear both the magazine catch and the slide stop.
As noted by others, your support hand is positioned incorrectly. It needs to come up and rotate so that the back of the end joint (not pad) of your gun hand fits against the middle joint of the support hand. This will put the thumbs in a slightly offset nested position. Remember that the gun arm pushes slightly out, the support arm pulls slightly back to create isometric tension.
Use of the medium grip insert may be helpful given your apparent hand size.
* Many people shoot the 1911 pistol with the gun hand thumb resting upon the safety. This same hand position can result in the slide stop of a Browning High Power not working because your thumb is in the way. With the M&P, the position can operate the slide top when you don't want/need it.
As noted by others, your support hand is positioned incorrectly. It needs to come up and rotate so that the back of the end joint (not pad) of your gun hand fits against the middle joint of the support hand. This will put the thumbs in a slightly offset nested position. Remember that the gun arm pushes slightly out, the support arm pulls slightly back to create isometric tension.
Use of the medium grip insert may be helpful given your apparent hand size.
* Many people shoot the 1911 pistol with the gun hand thumb resting upon the safety. This same hand position can result in the slide stop of a Browning High Power not working because your thumb is in the way. With the M&P, the position can operate the slide top when you don't want/need it.
magnum12pm
Member
I go to a busy public indoor range every week. If I had a dollar for every cup and saucer grip I saw I could retire. But if you have never been taught proper grip, most would probably go cup and saucer. If you use this style, the weak hand is doing you little good. It would hamper your performance in a match also trying to control the weapon during transition from one target to another. But I have one of the first MP 40 when they came out my magazine catch had to be replaced twice. I have shot north of 10 K rounds and had no problems since....good luck.....
