and yet another reason Jimmy CCW a DA revolver or a Glock. (KISS)
Major Epiphany At The Range Yesterday. UPDATE Bought The M&P
- Thread starter Smoke
- Start date
IMO, a decocker by itself (i.e. Sig P-series) is not a bad thing. It's certainly safer than actually lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber by pulling the trigger & using your thumb or keeping it in SA. On the range it's not a big deal, but not in real life. It also doesn't get in the way of follow up shots...using it will only put you in DA.
On the other hand, when you mix the functions of a safety and decocker in one switch or lever, you're just asking for issues unless the shooter practices many many thousands of reps.
With good instruction, training, and practice there aren't a whole lot of design quarks you can't get around...but most folks don't have that kind of time or money unless they're getting paid for it.
Either way Smoke, better to catch it while training. That's what it's for and now that you know, you can decide if it's worth replacing what you have or train through the issue.
On the other hand, when you mix the functions of a safety and decocker in one switch or lever, you're just asking for issues unless the shooter practices many many thousands of reps.
With good instruction, training, and practice there aren't a whole lot of design quarks you can't get around...but most folks don't have that kind of time or money unless they're getting paid for it.
Either way Smoke, better to catch it while training. That's what it's for and now that you know, you can decide if it's worth replacing what you have or train through the issue.
sac-gunslinger
Member
I converted to being a dyed-in-the-wool double-action revolver shooter something over 20 years ago. All-shooting all-double-action all-the-time.
When it became obvious that I would need a 9mm I rejected all the 9's I owned over the years including 1911's, Hi Powers, and 659's. I wanted a semi that worked just like my DA revolvers....pick up gun, aim, and squeeze. The striker-fired semis fit the bill.
Tried an SR9 but the 1911-like safety required adjusting style so I went to an XD (remember M&P's are off of the "approved list here in the People's Republik). Very happy with my choice, practice drills run very close for revolvers and semis.
When I carried an auto with the slide mounted safety/decocker, I always trained to decock, then return the switch to the "fire" position while leaving the gun pointed towards the area of the threat. That way when I holstered, it was no longer cocked and it was ready to fire double action.
I tried that and I am able to do it squared off on the range but the fact is that my hands are small enough to make it a very awkward move. I just didn't realize how awkward until this happened
Try bringing the gun to "close ready" where you pull it straight back into your chest, but with the muzzle pointed down range while performing the "decock. safety on / safety off" drill. The change in arm position may be enough to let you perform the task better. Then practice makes perfect.
That's how I trained when I carried my 3913, and we STILL train to come back to close ready after a stage and before holstering, because you never immediately reholster after an incident because you don't know if the BG is going to get up, of if another one is going to appear
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This issue was the reason given when my PD abandoned the 3rd gen S&Ws for Glocks around 1991.
It didn't help that we had a few knuckleheads who couldn't perform this drill properly and holstered cocked pistols.
I think they wanted to streamline training and biannual qualifications though, as more and more recruits came in w/ no firearm experience whatsoever.
It didn't help that we had a few knuckleheads who couldn't perform this drill properly and holstered cocked pistols.
I think they wanted to streamline training and biannual qualifications though, as more and more recruits came in w/ no firearm experience whatsoever.
kbm6893
Member
How many of us actually have to think before pressing the brake to shift a car into gear? None
For whatever reason, your picked up some bad habits with your 6906. Buying a new gun will not fix your problem. And trading a 6906 for a plastic M&P is insanity in my opinion. I have a few plastic guns. They're ok. Do the job. But a 3rd gen they are not. If you reload you can reload 1000 rounds of. 9MM for about 100 bucks. If you dont you can buy 1000 rounds of 9 for around 200 or so. I'd spend half the price of a new M&P on ammo and range time and keep the 6906
For whatever reason, your picked up some bad habits with your 6906. Buying a new gun will not fix your problem. And trading a 6906 for a plastic M&P is insanity in my opinion. I have a few plastic guns. They're ok. Do the job. But a 3rd gen they are not. If you reload you can reload 1000 rounds of. 9MM for about 100 bucks. If you dont you can buy 1000 rounds of 9 for around 200 or so. I'd spend half the price of a new M&P on ammo and range time and keep the 6906
I certainly get the drift of your post, but proper repetition and being able to act under distraction & stress ... making the correct decision for either action or reaction... are still worthy of consideration.
After all, it's not unknown for folks finding themselves in an unexpected driving situation to hit the wrong pedal, creating more problems for themselves ... accelerating when they mean to brake, and braking when they need to accelerate.
And apparently you've also spent a year on this range building a muscle memory of draw, disengage safety, fire two shots, decock (which engages the safety on your pistol) and reholster. See the issue?
Now I'm confused. Your muscle memory for the gun you've carried for years has developed dementia, and you're switching to a gun that matches your virtual muscle memory?
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I would say that the transition from a traditional double action pistol with decocker and safety to an M&P point and shoot, would be as easy as going from a standard transmission to an automatic.
No, one of the reasons I chose to carry a DA/SA gun is because I can decock it and safely carry it with the safety off. No difference between that and a gun that has no manual safety
Yes, you are confused.
On the one hand I don't have to justify my decision to anyone but on the other I did put it out there for discussion.
To put this in the simplest terms possible I have always looked for ways to simplify the process of using a firearm for self defense. Every step I have to take in that situation is one more thing that can go wrong so I want to eliminate every unnecessary step I can.
I have pull, point, shoot and get your finger off the trigger down and that's all I need to run an M&P.
To put this in the simplest terms possible I have always looked for ways to simplify the process of using a firearm for self defense. Every step I have to take in that situation is one more thing that can go wrong so I want to eliminate every unnecessary step I can.
I have pull, point, shoot and get your finger off the trigger down and that's all I need to run an M&P.
***itabouit! You done good. It's your butt on the line, not someone who is nostalgic about older designs. I never liked the traditional double-action transition from double action to single action. DAO is the way to go.
Stopped by Family Firearms Sales of Colorado Springs today after church to check on the availability of the M&P 9mm and magazines.
Told the counterman I was planning to sell a RIA 1911 to fund the purchase and we got to talking and things worked out such that I got the M&P, 4 spare magazines, a holster and two boxes of Hornady Critical defense ammunition and 50 bucks and traded off a couple of guns that I didn't want anyway.
Can't give a range report yet but when I can I will
Told the counterman I was planning to sell a RIA 1911 to fund the purchase and we got to talking and things worked out such that I got the M&P, 4 spare magazines, a holster and two boxes of Hornady Critical defense ammunition and 50 bucks and traded off a couple of guns that I didn't want anyway.
Can't give a range report yet but when I can I will
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Wyatt p. Tato
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You did good. I carried a revolver rather than learn all the safety, de- cocker, stuff. Now that I am comfortable with the striker fireed auto loaders that is what I carry. Point and click.
I think you will be happy with the M&P.
I think you will be happy with the M&P.
stantheman86
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^^^^
Why I only use revolvers and DAO autos.....
When Murphy is on the loose I don't need any more levers or buttons in my way. My muscle memory is so ingrained with just pulling a long heavy trigger I don't want to relearn to mess with a safety.
Why I only use revolvers and DAO autos.....
When Murphy is on the loose I don't need any more levers or buttons in my way. My muscle memory is so ingrained with just pulling a long heavy trigger I don't want to relearn to mess with a safety.
Jhawk412
Member
I personally think it's critical to maintain identical platforms with every gun you carry. This post has revolvers and DAO semis. Both have the same trigger pull. I would not routinely carry Glocks and revolvers.
The reason I say this is for a long time I carried a Sig P229 DAO at work (40cal.) I'd practice extensively with it and get pretty good. Then off-duty I'd carry a Glock 27. Switching back and forth was problematic in fast shooting. I'd either short-stroke the Sig's longer trigger or slap the heck out of the Glock's shorter trigger, depending which gun I'd been training with most recently.
KISS requires the same platform, same trigger in my opinion. YMMV.
