Malfunctioning Brand new M&P M2.0 5" model - 9 FTEs

[Jorgsmash]

Just shot my brand new M2.0 5" FDE model the other day and had a total of 9 failures to eject/extract the casing from the chamber. The fired casing would remain in the barrel while the slide tried to chamber a fresh round, resulting in a double feed. This type of malfunction requires the magazine to be removed in order to clear it. I was using good Winchester brass. I also put 50+ rounds of the same ammo from the same box through my glock 26 and had no ejection issues at all. For full disclosure, I removed the thumb safety before my first trip to the range. When I removed the safety I only worked on the frame portion and took the slide completely off, so there was no damage to the extractor or anything. Also, one of the two magazines that came with the gun doesn't drop free when the mag release is pressed, whether it's fully loaded or empty.

 

[Nonuthin]

Failure to extract is about the worst kind of jam you can have. It really takes you out of the action! Some causes that usually require factory repair: poor barrel-to-slide fit; poor barrel timing due to bad barrel or locking block specs; of course, restricted/defective bad extractor or extractor spring; rough or out-of-spec chamber; etc.

I didn't see any obvious rim damage to the fired case from the extractor claw so I guess sticking in a rough chamber could be eliminated...

All these kinds of problems usually require a factory warranty repair. Put your original parts back in and send it in. Good Luck.

 

[gonerydin]

If you're shooting 115gr I would move up to 124 for a while. Often times new pistols are a bit balky with lighter loads. Once it's broken in it will probably work fine with 115 ft. Just a thought.


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[Jorgsmash]

Failure to extract is about the worst kind of jam you can have. It really takes you out of the action! Some causes that usually require factory repair: poor barrel-to-slide fit; poor barrel timing due to bad barrel or locking block specs; of course, restricted/defective bad extractor or extractor spring; rough or out-of-spec chamber; etc.

I didn't see any obvious rim damage to the fired case from the extractor claw so I guess sticking in a rough chamber could be eliminated...

All these kinds of problems usually require a factory warranty repair. Put your original parts back in and send it in. Good Luck.

I will definitely be sending it in. I'm a little irritated though as this is the 2nd M&P pistol I've owned and I had problems with the last one as well. This one is a bit more irritating because it was the first time I ever fired it. What do you think about the magazine not dropping free?

 

[Jorgsmash]

If you're shooting 115gr I would move up to 124 for a while. Often times new pistols are a bit balky with lighter loads. Once it's broken in it will probably work fine with 115 ft. Just a thought.


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I do believe that perhaps a change in brand/type/grain of ammo could fix the issue or cause it not to happen again, but it shouldn't happen in the first place. 9 failures to extract within the first 100 rounds is just unacceptable. It almost makes me feel as if I can never trust the pistol again to be 100% reliable.

 

[wrangler5]

I'd sure try gonerydin's suggestion of more break-in shooting before giving up on the gun's function. While some people have zero defects from the first shot, these ARE mass produced products with tolerances which CAN stack the wrong way on the line.

Magazines that won't drop free do sound like a return-to-factory problem. But if a few hundred more rounds down the pipe will smooth out the working surfaces to where the gun is 100% on reliability, then that's one less thing for the factory to have to diagnose and fix, and you might not have to start over on the break-in when the gun comes back with properly functioning mags. (Of course, the factory may decide the mag well is out of spec and can only be fixed with a new gun, but that's a risk you run with any repair these days - I have a Shield 22 Compact back at the mothership whose mags won't stay IN unless you push 'em in a certain way, and the fact that they DO work normally if I reverse the mag catch has me thinking the frame is somehow just ever so slightly out of whack, and I fear the way they'll fix it is with a new gun. Oh well . . . )

 

[Jorgsmash]

If you're shooting 115gr I would move up to 124 for a while. Often times new pistols are a bit balky with lighter loads. Once it's broken in it will probably work fine with 115 ft. Just a thought.


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I do believe that perhaps a change in brand/type/grain of ammo could fix the issue or cause it not to happen again, but it shouldn't happen in the first place. 9 failures to extract within the first 100 rounds is just unacceptable. It almost makes me feel as if I can never trust the pistol again to be 100% reliable.

 

[Walkingwolf]

For that type of failure, I would send it back.

 

[Jorgsmash]

I'd sure try gonerydin's suggestion of more break-in shooting before giving up on the gun's function. While some people have zero defects from the first shot, these ARE mass produced products with tolerances which CAN stack the wrong way on the line.

Magazines that won't drop free do sound like a return-to-factory problem. But if a few hundred more rounds down the pipe will smooth out the working surfaces to where the gun is 100% on reliability, then that's one less thing for the factory to have to diagnose and fix, and you might not have to start over on the break-in when the gun comes back with properly functioning mags. (Of course, the factory may decide the mag well is out of spec and can only be fixed with a new gun, but that's a risk you run with any repair these days - I have a Shield 22 Compact back at the mothership whose mags won't stay IN unless you push 'em in a certain way, and the fact that they DO work normally if I reverse the mag catch has me thinking the frame is somehow just ever so slightly out of whack, and I fear the way they'll fix it is with a new gun. Oh well . . . )

Sorry for the double reply first off. This website doesn't seem to work well on mobile browser. To your point, I would really hope not to ever have a malfunction like this, especially 9 of them. I've never had a single malfunction with my glock. I know they can't be compared. But is it really fair to say "oh well shoot it some more and put those malfunctions behind you in the past. The gun might work then."

And to your second point, is it a bad thing if they replace the whole gun? The frame could be out of spec. Will that incur any charges if they deem the gun needs to be replaced?

 

[rch27834]

I hate it for you. It really sucks to get something new that's malfunctioning from the beginning. Regarding ammo... That pistol should not be that finicky.


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[Jorgsmash]

I hate it for you. It really sucks to get something new that's malfunctioning from the beginning. Regarding ammo... That pistol should not be that finicky.


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If it comes back from the factory I suppose I can trust it again. I just have not had good luck with Smith in my lifetime. Only owned two though.... 0_o

 

[Cheapskait]

Is the extractor supposed to stick out like that?

I don't have a 2.0, but the extractor on my 40c is slightly recessed and doesn't stand proud of the slide. Maybe you've got a burr or some manufacturing crude under there or maybe a broken/defective/missing extractor spring.

 

[wrangler5]

For years, the usual advice for checking out an autoloader before carrying it for personal defense has been to shoot it until it had 100/200/500/1000/pick-your-number of consecutive shots without a failure. And that included trying different ammo. Precisely BECAUSE new guns are known for not always being totally reliable right out of the box, and for sometimes not liking a particular brand or bullet weight. I've NEVER heard anybody say that if a gun has ANY failures with the first brand and type of ammo you try, before it has been through a reasonable break-in regime, then you should not trust it, no matter how many flawless strings it may have later with that or other ammo.

Sure, lots of people report flawless reliability out of the box, with the first ammo they try, even without a hint of cleaning the brand new gun. And we may all be spoiled by those reports, or even our own excellent experiences. But is it realistic to set that as a MINIMUM, when the historic experience recommends hundreds of rounds, and usually different ammo, before making a judgment?

Admittedly, if you're going to send the gun in for the magazine fix you may not want to "waste" any more ammo on function testing. I was just pointing out that IF the magazine problem can be fixed without a new frame/gun, then you might avoid having to go through the break-in process again if you got THIS barrel/slide/frame setup to work first, so the factory didn't have to fiddle with it.

As for replacing the whole gun if the frame turns out to be slightly out of spec - well, that's what you'd want 'em to do. It's just a nuisance have to go through the FFL/background check process again, when a "normal" repair comes directly back to your door. I've been through the replacement process, though, and there is NO extra cost - all the shipping is covered both ways and S&W reimburses the FFL/transfer fee too - it's just the nuisance of having to go to the FFL and then submit the receipt to S&W.

 

[Saudade]

Is the extractor supposed to stick out like that?

I don't have a 2.0, but the extractor on my 40c is slightly recessed and doesn't stand proud of the slide. Maybe you've got a burr or some manufacturing crude under there or maybe a broken/defective/missing extractor spring.

Bingo! The extractor is stuck. You can try pressing on the exposed end with something non-marring and see if the slips back into place.

Did you load a round through the ejection port and close the slide on it?

 

[Jorgsmash]

Is the extractor supposed to stick out like that?

I don't have a 2.0, but the extractor on my 40c is slightly recessed and doesn't stand proud of the slide. Maybe you've got a burr or some manufacturing crude under there or maybe a broken/defective/missing extractor spring.

I don't have it in front of me currently but I think the slide changes made on the new 2.0 might include different machining in that area. But if it were stuck, every round would fail to extract. It extracted the first 50 or so fine and then started occurring every 5-10 rounds or so, with a sting of 3 malfunctions occurring withing 8 rounds of each other. First 50 rounds were federal brass 115gr with no problems and then the Winchester started causing issues.

 

[Jorgsmash]

Bingo! The extractor is stuck. You can try pressing on the exposed end with something non-marring and see if the slips back into place.

Did you load a round through the ejection port and close the slide on it?

Thanks for the reply, see my response above.

 

[Jorgsmash]

For years, the usual advice for checking out an autoloader before carrying it for personal defense has been to shoot it until it had 100/200/500/1000/pick-your-number of consecutive shots without a failure. And that included trying different ammo. Precisely BECAUSE new guns are known for not always being totally reliable right out of the box, and for sometimes not liking a particular brand or bullet weight. I've NEVER heard anybody say that if a gun has ANY failures with the first brand and type of ammo you try, before it has been through a reasonable break-in regime, then you should not trust it, no matter how many flawless strings it may have later with that or other ammo.

Sure, lots of people report flawless reliability out of the box, with the first ammo they try, even without a hint of cleaning the brand new gun. And we may all be spoiled by those reports, or even our own excellent experiences. But is it realistic to set that as a MINIMUM, when the historic experience recommends hundreds of rounds, and usually different ammo, before making a judgment?

Admittedly, if you're going to send the gun in for the magazine fix you may not want to "waste" any more ammo on function testing. I was just pointing out that IF the magazine problem can be fixed without a new frame/gun, then you might avoid having to go through the break-in process again if you got THIS barrel/slide/frame setup to work first, so the factory didn't have to fiddle with it.

As for replacing the whole gun if the frame turns out to be slightly out of spec - well, that's what you'd want 'em to do. It's just a nuisance have to go through the FFL/background check process again, when a "normal" repair comes directly back to your door. I've been through the replacement process, though, and there is NO extra cost - all the shipping is covered both ways and S&W reimburses the FFL/transfer fee too - it's just the nuisance of having to go to the FFL and then submit the receipt to S&W.

I would agree it's not fair to demand zero failures, I'm just basing my current experience off of past experiences. I would just hope not to have 9 failures to extract from a brand new go-to-war/duty pistol from a company with a great reputation, all within the first day to the range. Maybe I'm being ridiculous but I'd expect better performance.

 

[Cheapskait]

...if it were stuck, every round would fail to extract. It extracted the first 50 or so fine and then started occurring every 5-10 rounds or so, with a sting of 3 malfunctions occurring withing 8 rounds of each other. First 50 rounds were federal brass 115gr with no problems and then the Winchester started causing issues.

An autoloader can function without an operable extractor as the fired case itself has momentum going toward the rear and there's residual gas pressure in the barrel. An example is the tip-up barrel Berettas which do not have extractors at all.

Throw some lube in there and try wiggling the extractor to free it up.

 

[Walkingwolf]

An autoloader can function without an operable extractor as the fired case itself has momentum going toward the rear and there's residual gas pressure in the barrel. An example is the tip-up barrel Berettas which do not have extractors at all.

Throw some lube in there and try wiggling the extractor to free it up.

That's true, I have both a SMC380, and a PA63 they both use the same extractor. The 380 is slightly smaller rim than the 9X18 so the extractor is really loose. The SMC though is completely reliable. The ejector is what really kicks the round out of the slide, without it the case would just be pushed back in. I would be surprised though if a new gun had a bad ejector.

 

[wrangler5]

Might try some compressed air, too.

 

[Disabled1]

It shouldn't matter what brand/type/grain ammo you choose to shoot in it, esp. it being a new gun. I think it's an extractor/extractor spring issue. I know this from experience. Several years ago when I bought my SD40VE it was having the SAME EXACT problem. I sent it back to S&W. 3.5 weeks later it came back with a new extractor and extractor spring.
Maybe yours could be the same issue, or not. But, I would definitely send it back.

 

[Cheapskait]

Maybe yours could be the same issue, or not. But, I would definitely send it back.

I don't know, but it could be something really simple like a piece of machining debris wedged between the extractor and the cut in the slide. He might be able to save the time by popping out the extractor pin and taking a gander himself.

 

[Jorgsmash]

I don't know, but it could be something really simple like a piece of machining debris wedged between the extractor and the cut in the slide. He might be able to save the time by popping out the extractor pin and taking a gander himself.

The extractor pin is a roll pin so how hard are those to remove? And aren't the springs very heavy, meaning potentially difficult to reinstall?

 

[Arik]

I would try a different brand of ammo just to rule out that possibility. Having said that S&W did have this issue back when they made the 357 Sig M&P. I know because I owned one and I wasn't the only one having that issue. It would rarely extract and was practically a single shot muzzle loader because I would have to tap out the brass after each and every shot. When, on the rare occasion, it did extract I was actually caught off guard

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[scooter123]

That's true, I have both a SMC380, and a PA63 they both use the same extractor. The 380 is slightly smaller rim than the 9X18 so the extractor is really loose. The SMC though is completely reliable. The ejector is what really kicks the round out of the slide, without it the case would just be pushed back in. I would be surprised though if a new gun had a bad ejector.

Walkingwolf makes an excellent point EXCEPT he forgot to note that Jorgsmash was removing the safety, which is right in the area of the frame where THE EJECTOR IS LOCATED. Jorgsmash I would suggest that you take a very close look at the Ejector in your frame because it may have been displaced from it's correct position when you removed the safety.

 

[Jorgsmash]

So just thoroughly examined the extractor and everything looks OK. It appears it's supposed to stick out slightly. I used the pin that goes in the grip to move the extractor around and the spring seems fine and strong. It moves freely. There's no evidence to suggest the loaded indicator could cause problems is there?

 

[Disabled1]

So just thoroughly examined the extractor and everything looks OK. It appears it's supposed to stick out slightly. I used the pin that goes in the grip to move the extractor around and the spring seems fine and strong. It moves freely. There's no evidence to suggest the loaded indicator could cause problems is there?

I would still send it back.

 

[royal barnes]

I posted some of the same issues with my 2.0 and received a lot of good suggestions. Before I sent it back to Smith I let my gunsmith play with it. He's a certified M&P armorer and experienced the same problems. He took the gun completely apart and found metal shavings under the extractor and inside the firing pin assembly. He also found what appeared to be grease of some kind inside the firing pin assembly He gave it a god cleaning, lubed in the correct places and proceeded to put a box of 124 grain ball through the pistol without a hitch. I have since put 300 trouble free rounds through it. He said one of the things drummed into their heads in the school was not put any kind of lubricant on the firing pin assembly. Don't know whether this could be your issue.

 

[MackTech]

I just got my new 2.0 5" 9mm yesterday. Stripped it and greased the slide rails and oiled as per the manual. It was very dry when I got it. I hope I have better luck than you in the reliability department! Good luck!

 

[Smakmauz]

The extractor is supposed to be like that. They machined away some of the material in that area but used the same extractor so it just kind of sticks out a little. Winchester white box 115 G is notoriously underpowered and known for causing issues like this. If you didn't have any problems with Federal it's because it's actually good quality ammunition with a good amount of power. In order to make some pistolsfunction with really low powered ammunition they would have to use a lighter recoil spring which would only make heavier ammunition recoil more and then people would complain about too much recoil so it's a balancing act.