Malfunctioning Brand new M&P M2.0 5" model - 9 FTEs

[Rastoff]

But if it were stuck, every round would fail to extract.

Not necessarily. It could be an intermittent problem caused by a burr on the machined surfaces. This could cause it to delay movement enough that it's a problem sometimes, but works most times.

 

[stavey]

Usually ammo or mag related nowadays.

 

[scooter123]

Jorgsmash, you keep focusing on the Slide when chances are that the problem lies with your FRAME. Specifically the EJECTOR which is a finger shaped part projecting forward from the area of the Safety Lever that you removed. This is the part that "kicks" the case sideways out of the ejection port as the slide moves to the rear. If you have this piece out of postion as a result of your removing the safety the failures you have experienced are EXACTLY what you have experienced. I would suggest that you post some pictures of the TOP of your frame so those experienced with this pistol and look and see of the Ejector is properly positioned.

 

[Rastoff]

scooter123,
I don't think that could be it. In this case, the spent cartridge is not pulled back far enough to contact the ejector. Good or bad, the ejector is not in play here.

Look again at this picture:

It is clear that the expended case has not moved backward far enough to contact the ejector.

No, we may not have completely resolved this, but it's certainly not the ejector. This is a failure-to-extract and not a failure-to-eject.

 

[Mark IV]

A FEW teething issues is one thing, but nine of them seems indicative of something more serious (especially on a modern, big-name polymer pistol that typically runs right out of the box).
As others have said, I'd let S&W pay to take a look at it. You have that original-owner warranty, might as well put it to good use, rather than keep wasting ammo hoping it settles down.

 

[Jorgsmash]

Jorgsmash, you keep focusing on the Slide when chances are that the problem lies with your FRAME. Specifically the EJECTOR which is a finger shaped part projecting forward from the area of the Safety Lever that you removed. This is the part that "kicks" the case sideways out of the ejection port as the slide moves to the rear. If you have this piece out of postion as a result of your removing the safety the failures you have experienced are EXACTLY what you have experienced. I would suggest that you post some pictures of the TOP of your frame so those experienced with this pistol and look and see of the Ejector is properly positioned.

I took a look at that a few weeks ago and it looks how it should but I'll post pics later today.

 

[Jorgsmash]

scooter123,
I don't think that could be it. In this case, the spent cartridge is not pulled back far enough to contact the ejector. Good or bad, the ejector is not in play here.

Look again at this picture:

It is clear that the expended case has not moved backward far enough to contact the ejector.

No, we may not have completely resolved this, but it's certainly not the ejector. This is a failure-to-extract and not a failure-to-eject.

Thanks for the response. I also was thinking this same thing, as the casing isn't even being pulled out of the chamber. I think it's an issue with the extractor and will be sending it off to S&W. I also considered the Apex extractor which focuses on reliability, but have read some reviews saying they experienced just the opposite with it.

 

[Jorgsmash]

Jorgsmash, you keep focusing on the Slide when chances are that the problem lies with your FRAME. Specifically the EJECTOR which is a finger shaped part projecting forward from the area of the Safety Lever that you removed. This is the part that "kicks" the case sideways out of the ejection port as the slide moves to the rear. If you have this piece out of postion as a result of your removing the safety the failures you have experienced are EXACTLY what you have experienced. I would suggest that you post some pictures of the TOP of your frame so those experienced with this pistol and look and see of the Ejector is properly positioned.

Here all. Looks perfectly fine to me but I'm no gunsmith.

 

[Rastoff]

Here all. Looks perfectly fine to me but I'm no gunsmith.

Yeah, I think it's fine too. No way this is an ejector problem. Definitely an extraction issue. What is actually causing the extraction problem is what we're unsure of.

Sending it to S&W is the right thing to do.

 

[ThrowinRocks]

For full disclosure, I removed the thumb safety before my first trip to the range. When I removed the safety I only worked on the frame portion and took the slide completely off, so there was no damage to the extractor or anything.

#1.Did you reinstall the safety and try shooting it?
#2.Did you install the plugs that cover the holes that the safety leaves behind when removed?

I ask because those plugs also stabilize the trigger mechanism.

 

[Rastoff]

#2.Did you install the plugs that cover the holes that the safety leaves behind when removed?

I ask because those plugs also stabilize the trigger mechanism.

Look at the pic I put in post #34. You can clearly see how the frame plugs are not there. But I have to ask, how does this "stabilize" the trigger mechanism? Those plugs don't touch anything inside. They only fill the hole. I'm curious to hear why you think they stabilize the trigger mechanism or what the trigger mechanism has to do with a failure to extract?

 

[ThrowinRocks]

I did not say the trigger mechanism would cause any issue but he removed the safety before firing it for the first time and could have caused some type of issue.
As far as the plugs go. Start at about 5:10. but what do I know. You seem to have a full grasp on the safety removal subject but I thought maybe I'd ask.
Couldn't see the plugs missing using my phone earlier today.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPQxn6hLLHg[/ame]

 

[Walt Sherrill]

The OP said he was using "good Winchester brass." If that was White Box, it may not have been good brass.

Off and on, over the years, I've seen WWB ammo with quality issues (and WWB was a notorious problem for CZs (which, back then, came from the factory with a weak extractor spring -- which couldn't cope with slight trash buildup under the extractor.) Keeping the area under the extractor (in the groove in the slide) clean and junk free solved the problem, and then Wolff came up with a stronger extractor spring, and CZ later incorporated a stronger spring design into production guns -- problem solved.

Back then, the WWB extractor groove looked like this "<" rather than this "/ " and it didn't let the extractor tip grab some rims properly. I haven't shot WWB in years, so don't know if that's still an issue with that ammo.

Not all ammo is made the same, and while folks say any quality gun should shoot virtually any ammo, there is some trashy ammo out there -- especially the less expensive stuff.
.

 

[jim46ok]

Is the extractor supposed to stick out like that?

I don't have a 2.0, but the extractor on my 40c is slightly recessed and doesn't stand proud of the slide. Maybe you've got a burr or some manufacturing crude under there or maybe a broken/defective/missing extractor spring.

Easy enough to check. If no obstruction/debris is found, then off to S&W...!

 

[Jorgsmash]

#1.Did you reinstall the safety and try shooting it?
#2.Did you install the plugs that cover the holes that the safety leaves behind when removed?

I ask because those plugs also stabilize the trigger mechanism.

I shot different ammo and it ran better, but I don't have the plugs yet. I sent the gun to S&W so they are looking at it. They said it could take up to a month.

 

[Jorgsmash]

The OP said he was using "good Winchester brass." If that was White Box, it may not have been good brass.

Off and on, over the years, I've seen WWB ammo with quality issues (and WWB was a notorious problem for CZs (which, back then, came from the factory with a weak extractor spring -- which couldn't cope with slight trash buildup under the extractor.) Keeping the area under the extractor (in the groove in the slide) clean and junk free solved the problem, and then Wolff came up with a stronger extractor spring, and CZ later incorporated a stronger spring design into production guns -- problem solved.

Back then, the WWB extractor groove looked like this "<" rather than this "/ " and it didn't let the extractor tip grab some rims properly. I haven't shot WWB in years, so don't know if that's still an issue with that ammo.

Not all ammo is made the same, and while folks say any quality gun should shoot virtually any ammo, there is some trashy ammo out there -- especially the less expensive stuff.
.

It was cheap and it was in a white box with red lettering. I have also seen the white box with black lettering and I think that was 124gr Nato spec. I was shooting the cheap 115gr winchester.

 

[Ray1970]

Just more food for thought here. I am pretty sure your 5" 2.0 is the gun that S&W submitted for the Army's MHS trials. That being said, I'm guessing any engineering with regards to function and reliability was based off of the 9mm NATO round. My guess is it will likely run more reliably with NATO spec ammunition than it does with the cheap 115 grain stuff. My personal recommendation when you get it back would be to run two to four hundred rounds of the 124 grain NATO stuff through it before switching back to the cheap stuff and see how that goes.

 

[andyo5]

From your original photo, it appears that the extractor may be stuck in the retracted position. Try removing the slide, push a round up under the extractor, and verify that it will hold the round against a force of a few pounds or against modest shaking up and down.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Just more food for thought here. I am pretty sure your 5" 2.0 is the gun that S&W submitted for the Army's MHS trials. That being said, I'm guessing any engineering with regards to function and reliability was based off of the 9mm NATO round. My guess is it will likely run more reliably with NATO spec ammunition than it does with the cheap 115 grain stuff. My personal recommendation when you get it back would be to run two to four hundred rounds of the 124 grain NATO stuff through it before switching back to the cheap stuff and see how that goes.

The load should have NO EFFECT on whether the extractor properly grasps and holds the case rim.

The OP could just try chambering and extracting live rounds from the loaded mag (without firing them) to see if the extractor is up to the task. And if any rounds don't extract properly, examine those case rims to see if there are any irregularities.

It really seems like an extractor issue.

 

[Ray1970]

The load should have NO EFFECT on whether the extractor properly grasps and holds the case rim.

I don't believe I said it did.

Extraction and ejection issues can be caused things other than extractors and ejectors. Slide velocity and full travel of the slide factor in too. Does he have an issue with the extractor? Maybe. Really hard to diagnose problems over the internet without laying hands on something so was just tossing out ideas.

 

[comiskeybum]

Hope you get it figured out. I got mine today and it was fine. I love this gun and Smith has done a hell of a job with the trigger.

I have never pulled a gun out of a box and shot it this well right away before.

 

[Florida Guy]

I do believe that perhaps a change in brand/type/grain of ammo could fix the issue or cause it not to happen again, but it shouldn't happen in the first place. 9 failures to extract within the first 100 rounds is just unacceptable. It almost makes me feel as if I can never trust the pistol again to be 100% reliable.

I have an inexpensive KelTec PF9 9mm that cost me around $250 new.
I broke it in with run of the mill 115gr. ammo and went through 229 rounds without one jam.
I consider it broken-in at this point.
You certainly have a right to be upset with your situation.
The best thing you can do is probably send it back to the mothership and hope they repair it correctly (good luck).

 

[CBStuard]

In post #45 the OP says he sent to to S&W so the discussion is kind of over at this point.

 

[Jorgsmash]

I have an inexpensive KelTec PF9 9mm that cost me around $250 new.
I broke it in with run of the mill 115gr. ammo and went through 229 rounds without one jam.
I consider it broken-in at this point.
You certainly have a right to be upset with your situation.
The best thing you can do is probably send it back to the mothership and hope they repair it correctly (good luck).

Hey Nutnfancy loves his PF9!! And yes it has been at S&W for a few weeks and should be getting it back tomorrow. I'll try and shoot it soon and let everyone know what happens and what they fixed... If they fixed it.