Man shoots coonhunters dog...big dispute

[looseman]

Pardon me if I don't seem neighborly.

I have had cows shot, gates left open, irrigation pipe crushed by vehicles, roads destroyed and gullies started by ATVs, fences cut, gates stolen, and crops destroyed, all by trespassers. Most of these were "sportsmen" of some kind, including varmint hunters, deer hunters, trappers, hog-doggers, and just plain poachers.

We have a yearly influx of these "sportsmen" from ATL and Florida who apparently think a lease on a 500 acre plot is equivalent to a deed to the whole county, fences, signs, and property lines be damned. That's in addition to our home-grown white-trash poachers and jack-lighters.

It is a sore subject.

As a lanowner myself, I understand your frustrations. But I also know that when I talk to people and explain to them why it's an issue, I get alot better results than when I'm not nice. I usualy don't have issues with the same one twice.

As a hunter who has been trespassing on the trail of somthing and run into the land owners. I have had discussions with them. Not once has one turned me back around when I repectfully explained my situation, and repeatedly apoligized for my transgression.

I would find it hard to believe that everone at one time or another hasn't tresspassed. It happenes wether you mean it to or not, it's how you deal with it thats important.

 

[ralph7]

The landowner is guilty of the cold-blooded murder of a beloved pet.
I think 10 days and $500 is a slap on the wrist.

 

[k22fan]

[...] The hunters were sentenced to 10 days in jail and fined $1000 for trespassing.The property owner was sentenced to 10 days in jail and a $500 fine for killing the dog. The property owner was also sentenced to an additional six months in jail and a $2,000 fine for assault. [...]

Too bad I can't get multi-quote to work. I quoted the OP for ralph7.

 

[ralph7]

The hunters were sentenced to 10 days in jail and fined $1000 for trespassing.
The property owner was sentenced to 10 days in jail and a $500 fine for killing the dog. The property owner was also sentenced to an additional six months in jail and a $2,000 fine for assault.

This was what i referred to.
I think both the sentences combined were light, but I am a devout dog lover and can't understand someone shooting a tethered pet.

 

[redlevel]

I'll tell y'all what . . . next time I'm close to your house, I'll just climb the fence and go in your backyard and cook me up a steak on your grill. I'll loosen a few boards on the fence while I'm at it, and leave a good sag in it. I'll let my dog **** in your yard and dig a few flowers in your wife's flower bed. I'll cut your garden hose and throw a few circles in your grass with my four wheeler while i'm there. I will just relieve myself on your patio while I'm there, so I won't have to actually break in your house.

I know you won't mind. After all, it just wouldn't be neighborly at all if you took offense at me taking such liberties with your property.

 

[4Js]

The four hunters got ten days. The landowner got ten days for the dog, then six months for assault.

I'd have put them in the same bullpen for the first ten days.

But that's just me.

 

[ralph7]

I'll tell y'all what . . . next time I'm close to your house, I'll just climb the fence and go in your backyard and cook me up a steak on your grill. I'll loosen a few boards on the fence while I'm at it, and leave a good sag in it. I'll let my dog **** in your yard and dig a few flowers in your wife's flower bed. I'll cut your garden hose and throw a few circles in your grass with my four wheeler while i'm there. I will just relieve myself on your patio while I'm there, so I won't have to actually break in your house.

I know you won't mind. After all, it just wouldn't be neighborly at all if you took offense at me taking such liberties with your property.

That's cool...

Shoot my dog and you're a dead man.

 

[4Js]

A friend of mine in Oklahoma had a lot of trouble with coyote hunters that used greyhounds. They'd drive through fences and run through alfalfa fields while following the dogs, never made an attempt to fix the fence even when it was apparent there were cattle.

One morning my friend was fixing a fence when a very tired greyhound jumped in the back of his pickup. It had a collar with the owner's name and address. It was a nice friendly dog.

My friend took the dog home, gave it some food and water. Then he drove the dog 40 miles south to Dalhart, Texas and turned it loose at the animal shelter.

Those guys never came back.

 

[Mule Packer]

I'll tell y'all what . . . next time I'm close to your house, I'll just climb the fence and go in your backyard and cook me up a steak on your grill. I'll loosen a few boards on the fence while I'm at it, and leave a good sag in it. I'll let my dog **** in your yard and dig a few flowers in your wife's flower bed. I'll cut your garden hose and throw a few circles in your grass with my four wheeler while i'm there. I will just relieve myself on your patio while I'm there, so I won't have to actually break in your house.

I know you won't mind. After all, it just wouldn't be neighborly at all if you took offense at me taking such liberties with your property.

Uh...maybe I misread the OP, but I thought he said the individuals went in to retrieve their dogs, leaving their firearms behind, so they could return to the wildlife refuge.

They were trying to correct the infraction by removing their dogs from the guy's property...not flagrantly and willfully destroying property as you propose to do in your example.

I really think we need to keep this in perspective. I don't think anyone is condoning property violation. I think most people just don't agree with someone shooting a restrained pet that the owner is trying to remove from the property. That's all.

 

[k22fan]

[... the hunters] asked if they could retrieve their dogs. The land owner refused their request. He then threatened to kill the dogs at the tree and shoot the hunter in the back if he went to retrieve the dogs. [...]

Hmmmm…. What if at this point in the confrontation the hunter stepped back, called 911 on his cell, and the phone conversation went like this:
"911 emergency. What are you reporting? [answer] Armed robbery in progress. A drunk is stealing my dog at gun point." ???

 

[4Js]

My in laws had a ranch just outside of Oklahoma City and had a lot of problems with trespassers during deer season. When I moved close to them I asked the old man if it was Ok for me and my son's to hunt on him. He told me that he would put me in charge of who hunted and who didn't as long as I kept the trespassers ran off.

After a couple of years I had pretty much everybody broke of sneaking in to hunt. Put locks on the gates, and plenty of signs.

There was a local guy who was just a maggot. Meth head, would mow the grass for old women for free, then come back and steal the mower. Eventually ended up in prison.

Anyway I found a lock cut one morning and there was Darin's pickup. I got out and checked, there wasn't anyone around. Found his tracks going off into the woods.

I got back about twenty five yards, got out my .30-06 reached in the glove box and got one of those surplus black tipped bullets, and put it right through the engine block. Then I put a new lock on the gate and went home.

The pickup was there all winter. His dad, who was a good man, eventually came and got it.

 

[redlevel]

Uh...maybe I misread the OP, but I thought he said the individuals went in to retrieve their dogs, leaving their firearms behind, so they could return to the wildlife refuge.

They were trying to correct the infraction by removing their dogs from the guy's property...not flagrantly and willfully destroying property as you propose to do in your example.

I really think we need to keep this in perspective. I don't think anyone is condoning property violation. I think most people just don't agree with someone shooting a restrained pet that the owner is trying to remove from the property. That's all.

OK, then, my dog dug under your fence and I just went in to retrieve him.

I certainly don't agree with the landowner shooting the restrained pet.

What I said was that responsible dog owners don't let their pets get in this position. If the doggers couldn't guarantee that their dogs were not going to go on property they were not supposed to go on, they should have never let them out of the box. The fact is that they were irresponsible dog owners and they lost a dog to a bad person because of their irresponsibility.

Another fact is that those who run hounds know that there is better than a 50-50 chance their dog is going on private property when they turn them out. Maybe not out West where there are miles and miles and miles of public land in every direction, but it is certainly the case here in the Southeast.

Yes, you are indeed condoning property violation when you take the attitude that "these things happen, hounds are going to chase the prey where ever it goes." That's what I meant earlier about doggers having a sense of entitlement. "I run dogs. They are going to cross property lines, so it should be OK with the landowner for me to violate his property line and get the dog."

 

[jlrhiner]

My problem is, all these upstanding coon dog hunters around the farm also run deer. They take them all year long, cuts down on the feed bill. The worse one I had to put up with was them running a doe down on the hill about 125 yards from the house. 11:00 pm. My sister, home alone hears a rifle shot. She gets dressed and steps out side and turns on the outdoor light. She can hear the hounds and she says they sound like they're in the barn lot. The "hounds men" fire off another shot to scare her back into the house. They then cut the fence and drive up on the hillside, toss the deer into the truck, wrangle the hounds and leave.

50 minute Sheriff response time.

I'm not a big fan of coondogs or coonhunters.

 

[chud333]

Some dog owners seem to be completely missing the point
here and possibly have not even read the opening post....
1.The hunter left his guns and went to retrieve his dog.
(Now maybe some of you with the purebred bird dogs trained
to whistle commands don't understand the coon hound)
It ain't like that.
2. A drunken property owner shot a LEASHED dog tethered to
its owner at the time. (Justify PLEASE) !!! I'd love to hear it.
3. Nobody cares about your problems in the past with Hog
hunters running AMOK without permission. Get a grip. This
has nothing to do with that.
The dumbass landowner will get what he deserves in the end.
As ole Dave has said, any man who is looking for a lost dog
on my property gets a pass. I would hope if i lost one of mine
"for any reason" i would be afforded the same opportunity.
The dude was'nt HUNTING on said property owner....
4. Even your purebred bird dogs CAN'T read. Again get a grip.
Think about what if your Champion "Mr. Regal Pointer"
or whatever his name is, was lost or had wandered slightly
off the property you thought you we're on.
Would it still be OK for the landowner to shoot it ???

Chuck

 

[perrazi]

this was a bad situation for all concerned. the bottom line here is though,control your animals and there won't be any problems in the first place.

 

[redlevel]

Some dog owners seem to be completely missing the point

You are the one who missed the point. The irresponsible dog owners lost control of their dogs and a dog was killed because of their irresponsibility. I keep going back to the POINT: if the dog owners had kept their dogs where they were supposed to be, it wouldn't have happened. If it was impossible to keep their dogs where they were supposed to be, they should have never let them out of the box. You get the grip. I have not tried to justify the landowner. What he did was wrong, but the ultimate fault is with dog owners who irresponsibly let their dogs out of their control.

Any hypothetical "what you (I) would do" is completely beside the point.

 

[chud333]

You are the one who missed the point. The irresponsible dog owners lost control of their dogs and a dog was killed because of their irresponsibility. I keep going back to the POINT: if the dog owners had kept their dogs where they were supposed to be, it wouldn't have happened. If it was impossible to keep their dogs where they were supposed to be, they should have never let them out of the box. You get the grip. I have not tried to justify the landowner. What he did was wrong, but the ultimate fault is with dog owners who irresponsibly let their dogs out of their control.

Any hypothetical "what you (I) would do" is completely beside the point.

Again, These are coon dogs sir. Maybe you are unfamiliar
with the breed.
Whatever you say will never justify a drunken idiot shooting
a leashed dog to it's owner.
The dog was not killed because of the owners irresponsibility,
it was killed by a drunken idiot with no common decency.
Good luck with your obviously well trained bird dogs.
I certainly hope you never have to go to a drunken
landowner to retrieve one that is lost.
Next time read the Opening Post.

Best Regards, Chuck

 

[redlevel]

Again, These are coon dogs sir.

I don't care what kind of dogs they are!! Breed of the dog is no excuse for trespassing!!

I read the OP. I have nowhere in the thread tried to justify the drunken landowner's actions.

You can't seem to get over the usual hound dogger's belief that it is ok to trespass because you know your dog is going to do it and there is nothing you can do about it.

I don't buy it. If you can't control your coon dog, then don't turn him out.

 

[jlrhiner]

The OP states "drunk or crazy" with no proof of either.

 

[chud333]

Again read the OP sir.
I'll not argue with a mentally unstable and obvious nut case.
You don't shoot a mans dog regardless. Enough said.......
It sounds like you are the last person on earth that should
be owning dogs.

Peace out,
Chuck

 

[redlevel]

I'll not argue with a mentally unstable and obvious nut case.

Just for clarification, do you mean me?

 

[HAWKEYE10]

Pardon me if I don't seem neighborly.

I have had cows shot, gates left open, irrigation pipe crushed by vehicles, roads destroyed and gullies started by ATVs, fences cut, gates stolen, and crops destroyed, all by trespassers. Most of these were "sportsmen" of some kind, including varmint hunters, deer hunters, trappers, hog-doggers, and just plain poachers.

We have a yearly influx of these "sportsmen" from ATL and Florida who apparently think a lease on a 500 acre plot is equivalent to a deed to the whole county, fences, signs, and property lines be damned. That's in addition to our home-grown white-trash poachers and jack-lighters.

It is a sore subject.

I had a guy at work that wanted permission to hunt on my land. I told him no that I only had 20 acres and he said if I have permission to hunt on your place I can hunt on other land owners around you. I said that is the reason you will not get permission to hunt on me. I already knew how he was. Don

 

[Len]

Anyone that's ever read my posts knows how I feel about dogs. Nuff said.

That the guy who shot the dog is nothing better than vermin is understood.

I have seen a lot of the same stuff on our farm that Redlevel speaks of. The damage, poaching and theft are rampant.

And, while I field and obedience train dogs, on the farm I'll run them for practice, I have to watch for the bear dog hunters.

You see, in Michigan, it's legal for the hunters to run the dogs onto your property if they're in "chase." And, the hunters can enter your property to retrieve their dogs. My understanding is also, that there is no requirement for the hunters to disarm or unload when coming onto private property.

I don't even want to think about what would happen if bear dogs saw black labs training in my open fields. I have no idea what they'd do.

There is no way anyone should react as this absolute moron did, but as you can see, here in Michigan at least, some of us property owners in bear country are basically held hostage by the lowest common denominator of hunters.

And yes, my neighbor, when discussing this during bear dog training season with a couple of hunters on adjoining land...actually had them unshoulder their shotguns and laugh when he asked them to leave!

It's a tough situation all around...and still nothing I've said diminishes the guilt of a devil who would shoot a leashed dog at the owner's side!

Len

 

[wheelgun28]

Interesting thread

Seems as if the land owner became the judge, jury and executioner. Taking the law into your own hands does not end well most of the time.

How the hunter got wrapped up into charges and found guilty is interesting and leaves the feeling of there's more to the story.

Now that this has gotten past the criminal aspect the next level of justice is civil. Unless the landowner is related to everyone in the county I think he would have a very hard time in civil court.

If it were me I would seek a heavy sum. I would try to legally take his land as restitution. Then donate it to the adjoining property. If that wasnt possible I am sure I can keep him busy with the courts.

Its not like the land owner caused an accident, this was purposeful and with malice. I feel this caused great harm to the hunter, his family and property.

 

[gm272gs]

There seems to be quite a lot of excitement in this thread. I could tell by the really big text.

 

[dpowers311]

Most states if you are legally hunting you have the right to pursue your quarry if shot,they were not hunting on his land they went to retrieve their property, they did not shoot the coon and left their weapons behind. Wonder if the land is posted some states require this to keep people off.

I have taken hunters ed in 3 states and you do not have the right to cross property lines with out permission. You can shoot the new world record buck and have it fall 10 feet across the property line and if you can not get permission you can not retrieve it, if you do a land owner can press charges and you will get your deer confiscated and fined.

I am surprised they did not jump him when he shot the dog. This could have been real bad, not that it wasn't.

 

[Poodle Soup]

Sorry to those who think the property owner was in the right. I would have been armed and you would have been shot as soon as the threat came out of your mouth and the gun started to raise in my OR my dogs direction.

If a dog is hot on the trail of something they could run for miles and they don't give a damn about anything especially imaginary lines. Ive watched them run through fences straight into trees and knock over people. That sign saying "No Trespassing"? Come on.

Get into a car accident and end up in this guys yard is he going to come out shooting too?

 

[keith44spl]

I don't care what kind of dogs they are!! Breed of the dog is no excuse for trespassing!!

I read the OP. I have nowhere in the thread tried to justify the drunken landowner's actions.

You can't seem to get over the usual hound dogger's belief that it is ok to trespass because you know your dog is going to do it and there is nothing you can do about it.

I don't buy it. If you can't control your coon dog, then don't turn him out.

Red,

Sorry to hear of your distruction of property...

I personally have never witnessed such disrespect toward a land owner.

Just been lucky I guess, but maybe I've made my own luck.

Hope things improve for you in the future.

By the way, I'm not a coonhunter and besides, my range is further north by northwest...Tweren't me.


.

 

[Faulkner]

I liken this to if I was to have to explain to my wife how I got arrested in a whore house when all I did was go in to fetch my drunk buddy. Right or wrong, if we'd not gone in a place we didn't belong there wouldn't have been any trouble.

 

[jdh]

That's cool...

Shoot my dog and you're a dead man.

Your dog kills my chickens it is a dead dog. Come making threats and display the means to follow through on them and you can join the dog. You have a problem with that?
There is a solution, keep the damn dog off my property and away from my "livestock".