Many questions on this SW hand ejector

[brittneysue]

Hi all, I just got this Smith and Wesson revolver, and I feel like I have a general idea of what it is, but some other things have me stumped. I added some pictures, and I didn't notice any model number, just a serial number, and these little symbols that are next to the CTG on the barrel. Any help is much appreciated. I'm also curious if people have luck with shooting these? I don't mean it to be my main gun for anything, but I would like to take it to the range. Someone scared me about "catastrophic failure" with older guns, and my understanding is that is more likely from using the wrong ammo as compared to an old gun being akin to a ticking time bomb. Either way, something about it made me fall in love, but the other part of me feels silly knowing not much of it! Is it a 1905? 1910? Any estimate of a shipping date with a serial number of 3228XX? The serial number on the butt matches the cylinder. One of the things that perplexes me the most is that there is no Smith and Wesson stamp on it, and the same with the wooden stock.

 

[hkcavalier]

It's a post WWI M&P with a chopped barrel, aftermarket grips, and refinished in nickel. No collector value unless you can prove it was owned by someone famous...

Should be a fine shooter if the crown isn't all messed up from the chop job.

 

[Grayfox]

You have a Model 1905 Military & Police revolver. That serial number falls in the range listed as 1915-1942. I'm afraid the book doesn't get closer than that. Best guess would be the late 1910s, maybe early 1920s.
The offset barrels roll marks indicate that the barrel has been shortened. And its been nickle plated somewhere along the line.
The little symbols are what collectors commonly refer to as dingbats. They do nothing more than frame the cartridge designation markings.
If its in good mechanical condition and the timing is good, it should be safe to fire with standard velocity ammo.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

Welcome aboard from ol' Wyo, brittneysue.

I'm quite sure a few of the local aficionados will be along soon with
more specific details about the era your .38 M&P originated.

 

[Truckman]

The lack of any logo might be either from the refinish or wartime production...No address line might also be poor refinish or pre-1922 production......Ben

 

[DCWilson]

Welcome to the Forum!

Serial numbers for that model passed 400000 in the mid '20s, so that one probably left the factory around 1920-22. I'm not sure it has been refinished. The photos are overexposed, but it looks to me as though someone took a gun with a failing blue finish and just rubbed it with steel wool and tried to make it look better without necessarily making it look new. There seems to be shallow pitting everywhere, so possibly the gun was completely covered in thin rust at some point. Note that the sideplate screws seem unmangled; they may never have been out of the gun. Note too that the sideplate to frame fit is ungullied. That indicates that if the gun was refinished, it was done by someone who knew how to do it sensitively.

I don't understand the dark patch visible on the forward top of the cylinder in the right side photo of the gun. There is also a tiny black spot just above the retaining pin in the barrel underlug. Could those be remnants of the original blue?

As others noted, the barrel has definitely been cut, probably from six inches to a little less than four.

If the action is tight, there is no reason not to shoot that gun. Standard loads of .38 Special are fine, but +P loads are probably best avoided. The gun won't detonate, but why stress a century old gun unnecessarily? I usually shoot low pressure wadcutter loads in my older .38s.

I may be way off base in my understanding of the photos and the nature of the finish. Let some more opinions pile up and see if others agree. I could be just another average old guy with bad eyes.

 

[brittneysue]

Thank you all, I'm no collector by any means, other than I like to visit the range, so no loss in that regard. I do wonder though, what causes people to refinish these revolvers? It's a shame if it did cover what may have been there previously, but all in all, the timing is fine and I'll take it out in about 2 weeks when I visit my range. Enjoy your days everyone, and thanks again.

 

[Truckman]

Showing a picture of the underside of the barrel on the flat area with the cylinder open may give us a clue to the original finish...The presence of a stamped "B" preceding the serial number could indicate an original blued finish......Ben

 

[gmborkovic]

It appears the ole girl suffered the fate of many guns that were mass produced after the turn of the century. Cut and nickel plate. Nobody cared about serial numbers. Much less over buffing and homemade grips. Who
cared. Paint your tractor with a brush and the wrong color paint. Had a Deere tractor painted Ford blue with red fenders. Ran like new.

 

[brittneysue]

Welcome to the Forum!

Serial numbers for that model passed 400000 in the mid '20s, so that one probably left the factory around 1920-22. I'm not sure it has been refinished. The photos are overexposed, but it looks to me as though someone took a gun with a failing blue finish and just rubbed it with steel wool and tried to make it look better without necessarily making it look new. There seems to be shallow pitting everywhere, so possibly the gun was completely covered in thin rust at some point. Note that the sideplate screws seem unmangled; they may never have been out of the gun. Note too that the sideplate to frame fit is ungullied. That indicates that if the gun was refinished, it was done by someone who knew how to do it sensitively.

I don't understand the dark patch visible on the forward top of the cylinder in the right side photo of the gun. There is also a tiny black spot just above the retaining pin in the barrel underlug. Could those be remnants of the original blue?

As others noted, the barrel has definitely been cut, probably from six inches to a little less than four.

If the action is tight, there is no reason not to shoot that gun. Standard loads of .38 Special are fine, but +P loads are probably best avoided. The gun won't detonate, but why stress a century old gun unnecessarily? I usually shoot low pressure wadcutter loads in my older .38s.

I may be way off base in my understanding of the photos and the nature of the finish. Let some more opinions pile up and see if others agree. I could be just another average old guy with bad eyes.

Thank you for your reply! I took the photos outside in the sun, maybe was not the best idea, but I took some inside ones showing some of the finish up close. The dark spot on the cylinder almost looks like a spot that peeled off or wore off, I cannot be too sure. When I took the stock off, there were some dark spots like corrosion, not sure if that gives any better idea of if its been refinished or not. I checked the timing on it and it seems just fine, so I'm excited to take it out! It might not be a collector grade, but Im pretty happy to add it.

 

[brittneysue]

Showing a picture of the underside of the barrel on the flat area with the cylinder open may give us a clue to the original finish...The presence of a stamped "B" preceding the serial number could indicate an original blued finish......Ben

No B to be found on this one! Thank you.

 

[DCWilson]

Thank you for the additional photos. It now seems to me that the dark spot on the cylinder is the result of flaked off nickel, so I was wrong in my initial interpretation. It still seems odd to me that the nickel finish carries multiple fine striations, but maybe an earlier owner used whatever rags and compounds were available to try to polish it up and make it look better.

Shoot it in good health!

 

[hkcavalier]

It might be originally a nickel gun, but S&W didn't plate the hammer and trigger, which are dead giveaways of a refinish if found as such.

 

[Truckman]

It might be originally a nickel gun, but S&W didn't plate the hammer and trigger, which are dead giveaways of a refinish if found as such.

In addition, I believe the extractor star would still be blued on a factory nickeled gun...But so far we haven't seen that view......Ben

 

[brittneysue]

Thank you for the additional photos. It now seems to me that the dark spot on the cylinder is the result of flaked off nickel, so I was wrong in my initial interpretation. It still seems odd to me that the nickel finish carries multiple fine striations, but maybe an earlier owner used whatever rags and compounds were available to try to polish it up and make it look better.

Shoot it in good health!

It certainly does look like some sort of flaking, and yes there is alot of pitting and interesting texture. Which makes me think, is there a certain cleaning procedure with these old guns? Thank you again!

 

[brittneysue]

In addition, I believe the extractor star would still be blued on a factory nickeled gun...But so far we haven't seen that view......Ben

Here's that view, looks about the same as everything else?

 

[brittneysue]

It might be originally a nickel gun, but S&W didn't plate the hammer and trigger, which are dead giveaways of a refinish if found as such.

I Googled a Factory Nickel and I see what you mean. Is there a reason people refinished them in Nickel? Was it purely aesthetic? I do love the Blued and Parkerized finishes...I guess that's a reason to get another someday!

 

[AlHunt]

In that last picture, the finish doesn't look nearly as beat up as all the other pics. I think this is a case of the camera making it look much worse than it does in person.

Is that extractor star actually blued? Kinda looks like it.

 

[Truckman]

In that last picture, the finish doesn't look nearly as beat up as all the other pics. I think this is a case of the camera making it look much worse than it does in person.

Is that extractor star actually blued? Kinda looks like it.

I agree, the finish does not look nearly as weathered in this last photo...And the star is blued, and the hammer seems to be color case-hardened...I think it may have been originally nickeled from the factory...Can we see pics of both sides of the grip frame with the grips off?......Ben

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

Smith & Wesson revolvers built around the time of WW I did not receive any S&W markings.

The stocks are non factory Magnas. This revolver would been shipped with service stocks.