Mass police chiefs in a tizzy

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No person in the Commiewealth can own, purchase or legally possess a rifle, handgun, ammunition or even pepper spray without a permit. The licensing permit process in place now includes an intensive background check by the State Police. One of the most stringent licensing processes in the country. The system in place now works...period. Nothing to do with public safety. Everything to do with additional gun control.
 
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badge said:
Obtrusive and nightmarish is what it seems to be to me. I worked in a shall issue state and live in one now. I prefer them.
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My wife and I both have LTC's from PA. We are moving there soon. Permits issued by Adams County Sherrif's Department. All the people we met were SUPER nice. Two DS's even showed us their carry guns, both .45's, not S&W's but that's okay. on our renewals the young lady even said she was sorry for making us wait about 10 minutes for our pictures. The last thing I said to all of them was, "You people aren't from Massachusetts, are you?". We all had a good laugh.
 
Good luck to you and your wife Don residing in Massachusetts. Keep in mind that a government entity that has the power to issue licenses also has the power to revoke them.
I was born and raised in Massachusetts and when I have to go back there, which is infrequently, for a family function I feel like I'm in a foreign country and a 3rd world one at that.
Jim
 
badge said:
Obtrusive and nightmarish is what it seems to be to me. I worked in a shall issue state and live in one now. I prefer them.
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As the law is written, MA is a SHALL ISSUE state. A disqualifying event then gives the licensing powers legal justification for denial. You can subsequently hire an attorney and fight the ruling.

This was a HUGE second amendment victory in denying police chiefs discretionary power to deny you simply because they are anti gun or happen not to like you. There has been a long history of Chiefs bypassing the written law and denying applicants. This practice has basically been illegal but allowed to continue and often overturned in court. Giving them written approved legislative power to approve or deny would have been a disaster for us.

As MA gun owners all know, in years gone by, a long gun or shotgun was almost like a non issue. All that was needed to possess them was an FID card, firearms identification card. I'm sure the reason for the long gun being moved to the front burner in legislation is because of that evil black one.

The fight continues. Never surrender.
 
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I can understand some police chiefs wanting to have maximum authority, but sheesh - they want to decide who can and can't own any firearm, even after they've passed *all* background checks? They in essence want to have veto power over who has constitutional protections and who doesn't. Even the gun grabbers should be opposed to this one, because the next logical step would be for police chiefs or other non-elected officials to decide which of any constitutional protections any one individual would enjoy. I really don't think the framers of the Constitution intended it to be viewed the way Massachusetts politicians want to interpret it.
 
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Police chiefs usually are appointed, so they simply reflect the opinions of the politicians that they owe their jobs to. Wouldn't be surprised if supporting this measure was "suggested" to the members of the MCPA.

BTW I grew up in Lawrence MA; glad the Army got me out of there.

Hey, italiansport: what part of MA and where you at in AZ? I'm moving to San Tan Valley in November...
 
GerSan69 said:
Police chiefs usually are appointed, so they simply reflect the opinions of the politicians that they owe their jobs to. Wouldn't be surprised if supporting this measure was "suggested" to the members of the MCPA.

BTW I grew up in Lawrence MA; glad the Army got me out of there.

Hey, italiansport: what part of MA and where you at in AZ? I'm moving to San Tan Valley in November...
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Born and raised in North Adams. I'm now in the Scottsdale area. PM me when you get here.
Jim
 
KLYDE said:
As the law is written, MA is a SHALL ISSUE state. A disqualifying event then gives the licensing powers legal justification for denial. You can subsequently hire an attorney and fight the ruling.
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This, of course, is technically correct, with one MAJOR qualification - the Chief can put ANY restriction on the license. Plainly put, some Chiefs issue carry permits, and some don't, at their unregulated discretion.
 
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Model520Fan said:
This, of course, is technically correct, with one MAJOR qualification - the Chief can put ANY restriction on the license. Plainly put, some Chiefs issue carry permits, and some don't, at their unregulated discretion.
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Correct 520. I was down near Cape Cod a few weeks back and stopped in a local gun store. They had some powder so I made the purchase. Gave the kind lady my LTC. She looked at it and then says to me in a surprised tone, "Class A High Capacity. Who do you know?" I told her I was a copper and she said Oh. Sad when you have to "know someone" to get a "shall issue" license.

Just goes to show you how many actual LTC mean license to carry. Shall issue certainly does not mean the full boat. Can't wait to move.
 
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KLYDE said:
As the law is written, MA is a SHALL ISSUE state. A disqualifying event then gives the licensing powers legal justification for denial. You can subsequently hire an attorney and fight the ruling.

This was a HUGE second amendment victory in denying police chiefs discretionary power to deny you simply because they are anti gun or happen not to like you.

r.
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In the link-


"Massachusetts police chiefs have had discretionary ability [to issue handgun permits] for decades here and the system has been pretty widely abused as far as suitability goes because it's left up to the chief to decide," said Jim Wallace, executive director of the Gun Owners' Action League. "Some chiefs say they just don't hand out those licenses, or some are granted for target and hunting purposes only."

This is considered shall issue?

MA is listed as a may issue state in the reference material I have read.
 
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ChattanoogaPhil said:
In the link-


"Massachusetts police chiefs have had discretionary ability [to issue handgun permits] for decades here and the system has been pretty widely abused as far as suitability goes because it's left up to the chief to decide," said Jim Wallace, executive director of the Gun Owners' Action League. "Some chiefs say they just don't hand out those licenses, or some are granted for target and hunting purposes only."
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Phil, correct also. Law was written "shall issue" for years when this was going on. I'm sure the blatant disregard of the "shall issue" was brought up in court and the wordage was changed. I haven't read the laws recently as they change quicker than the seasons and I don't feel like getting my blood pressure up. Many towns were notorious for anti gun Police Chiefs who blatantly disregarded the written law and denied the applicants. Many had to get lawyers at their own expense and fight. A good number who did were victorious in getting a license but at what expense. Those not able to afford a lawyer just went away.

This seemed to be prevalent back a number of years. Lately with the help of NRA, GOAL and other groups the climate has shifted a bit. As mentioned earlier it is still pretty tough to get an out right LTC. Bottom line is the powers pretty much did or do what they want. You don't like it....fight it.
 
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Chat Phil,

I'm sorry that you quoted Goal's misstatement. Although the EFFECT is as you, GOAL and I stated, Klyde was CORRECT in his statement of the law, at least since 1998. READ THE ACTUAL LAW, and you will see what I mean. The law says "shall issue," and outright denials can be challenged in court. Restrictions are discretionary.

KLYDE,

I'm surprised that you got that response in a gun store. While policies vary somewhat around the Cape, AFAIK, Falmouth has been nearly the only problem, and I don't know whether it still is. There are a LOT of Class A permit holders on the Cape. The only thing missing is a pressing need to carry, other than GP and a few unleashed dogs.
 
Club Gun Fan said:
My wife and I both have LTC's from PA. We are moving there soon. Permits issued by Adams County Sherrif's Department. All the people we met were SUPER nice. Two DS's even showed us their carry guns, both .45's, not S&W's but that's okay. on our renewals the young lady even said she was sorry for making us wait about 10 minutes for our pictures. The last thing I said to all of them was, "You people aren't from Massachusetts, are you?". We all had a good laugh.
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Same here Don, I was in Lackawanna County getting a PA non-resident, took me 15 minutes and they apologized for taking so long. They said they get lots of people from NY.
I'm with you and Klyde, going going gone, out of NY asap. I can taste it.
 
In NY, it is the at the discretion of county judge to issue handgun permits. Some have no problem issuing a CCW while others will not issue you any permit. My county is decent but in order to get a CCW, you have to take a safety course AND write a letter to the judge why you should be able to have a CCW. The basic permit here in NY is premises and hunting but even that is not clear in the law.

James
 
moosedog said:
"Massachusetts police chiefs rally for right to control long-gun permits | Fox News "

Political hacks who think like elitist's and socialists. Sad. Gives LE a bad name.
Most of these Chief's were never really street cops, just brown nose's from day one.
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I'm not sure of the facts, but it is my understanding that it was just a handful of Chiefs.
 
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