MBUS issue detected and Kudos to Magpul

[Bitbyte]

The other night at the range with my new 15-22 MOE, I noticed on my rear MBUS sight that the small aperture didn't line up concentrically with the large one, which would throw the zero off (unless this is some sort of offset by design to offset for long range shots and the trajectory of the bullet, but my M16 sights weren't like that).

Upon further investigation, I noticed that the hole for the large aperture wasn't round due to some injection molding flash left in there from the manufacturing process. I also noticed that the small aperture hole wasn't in the middle of the "nipple" part of it that sticks into the large aperture.

I called S&W, they offered to let me send the entire weapon back in and they would have a look. They predicted a few weeks turnaround. I told them that seemed a bit much for a couple of pieces of plastic. He then offered that I could send just the sights back with the same turnaround. I told him I would think about it, intending to see if I could simply buy a "proper" steel rear aperture and simply replace it myself since I don't really want to skip a few weeks at the range with my kids.

I then decided to see if Magpul would just send me the pieces so I could replace them myself. I prepared myself for sending them pictures (which I will include later in this posting). I called them, spent a whopping 2 minutes on hold and spoke with a very nice lady who upon hearing my plight immediately asked for my address so she could send me an entire new set of sights. I could then take the defective ones off, throw them back in the package and return them. All prepaid, all on the "honor system" that I will send the old ones back, and all without even the slightest bit of hesitation on their part.

I gotta tell ya, I buy a LOT of stuff online since I live in Bismarck, ND (aka BFE) and we don't have much locally here. I am pleased as punch that I won't have to miss any time at the range with my kids and that Magpul stepped up and is making me a very happy customer. No product is perfect, and things happen. What really defines a company is what they do about it when something doesn't go right, and Magpul is aces in my book.

FWIW, I'm not saying that S&W wouldn't take care of me, it just wouldn't have been nearly as convenient as the solution that Magpul employed.

Since a picture is worth a thousand words here's about 3k worth.
Notice the flash left from the injection molding process at the top of the large aperture.

Here you can see that the hole isn't in the middle of the "nipple". It's not as evident in the picture as it is looking at it in real life. Getting decent cellphone pics can be challenging.

Lastly this is a picture of how the small hole doesn't line up with the large one concentrically.

Has anyone else seen this on their MBUS?

- Tim

 

[Jav]

Think you'd be the first haha. Mine was cut right so it fits.
I'm glad Magpul hooked you up there! I've never contacted them before but that's great that they were so good to you

 

[Bitbyte]

Think you'd be the first haha. Mine was cut right so it fits.

Oh sure, rub it in!

I'm glad Magpul hooked you up there! I've never contacted them before but that's great that they were so good to you

Indeed. I was a bit shocked. They didn't even ask me to prove when I bought it or anything.

 

[Rustpot]

I honestly never used the large aperture so I would have never noticed if it was off or not. My wide has a few tiny rough spots, but the small doesn't line up in the center, similar to how yours looks.

I use the red dot mainly, and only the smaller aperture even when shooting at closer ranges since with my eyes the wide aperture ghosts almost completely away with both eyes open and doesn't lead to very good groupings. Plus with the lower 1/3 cowitness of my dot I can't see the whole ring and therefore can't center the post very easily.

Since this is my .22 and not a rifle ever destined for use off the range I doubt I'll bother with calling Magpul. Good to know there may be and issue and I shouldn't put it on any future battle rifles.

 

[Bitbyte]

Rustspot,

I agree the wide hole is too big. I'm still considering a replacement for the rear aperture once I see how the new sight set I get from Magpul looks. I read somewhere that XS makes a drop in rear aperture replacement for the MBUS.

I don't have a red dot yet, but I plan on buying one in the next few weeks or so. In the meantime I want my kids to learn to use the open sights. I prefer to save my money and get a slightly better red dot. I'm hoping to get an ultradot pan-a-v.

I think we all agree that the 15-22 is not a "battle rifle". However, considering the premium price Magpul charges for their products versus what it actually costs to make them. I don't feel it's unreasonable to expect it to be capable of correctly performing the functions for which is was marketed and designed. A round hole isn't a lot to ask. Nor is expecting the other hole to be located in the correct place. If they were a $10 item, it would be different. If these factors aren't important to you, I certainly respect that.

I'm just happy they are willing to at least try and make it right.

You certainly make some interesting points though. Thanks for the input.

-Tim

 

[Rustpot]

If you're teaching the kids to use iron sights do them a favor and get a new rear sight. Someone probably has one they've taken off their 15-22 you can get for cheaper than an XS aperture set.

I fully believe the MBUS set is not intended for use as the primary sight on a rifle. They are, after all, called Magpul Back Up Sights. The front needs to be pinned in place since it has no locking detent, and the rear has no elevation adjustment and a fairly sloppy windage knob.

They are great for backup though. They're light, snap into place, cost much less than other folding sights (not counting clones, knock offs, airsoft models, etc), and can be zeroed once and forgotten about until needed. They're not trying to be match sights, or billet machined chunks that will outlast the receiver they're clamped to.

 

[Bitbyte]

If you're teaching the kids to use iron sights do them a favor and get a new rear sight. Someone probably has one they've taken off their 15-22 you can get for cheaper than an XS aperture set.

I fully believe the MBUS set is not intended for use as the primary sight on a rifle. They are, after all, called Magpul Back Up Sights. The front needs to be pinned in place since it has no locking detent, and the rear has no elevation adjustment and a fairly sloppy windage knob.

They are great for backup though. They're light, snap into place, cost much less than other folding sights (not counting clones, knock offs, airsoft models, etc), and can be zeroed once and forgotten about until needed. They're not trying to be match sights, or billet machined chunks that will outlast the receiver they're clamped to.

Interesting you mention that. While on the phone I asked how much to buy a set of the stock iron sights for the 15-22 from S&W. $19.99 for the front and $29.99 for the rear, plus shipping. Maybe I can find someone on here who has replaced their stock sights with BUIS or MBUS and wants to sell theirs.

Not sure the best way to go about looking for that. I don't want to get the moderators mad at me for posting that in the wrong area of the forum.

I agree they seem to be built as more as a "last resort" than a "normal use" sight. I got the MOE version because the difference in price between it and the base model 15-22 was far less than buying just the MBUS, and you get the rear stock and grip with it to boot. The way everyone was buying them so ravenously made me think they were a bit higher quality than they are. Still, they aren't terrible, but certainly not as nice as iron sights. Once I get a red dot it will be less of an issue. Although I am still stressing they learn to use the iron sights, so a co-witness setup is probably in my future. Seems to be the best of both worlds.

-Tim

 

[Rustpot]

The 15-22 ones come up for sale in the classifieds here from time to time. They're likely not much different than a Mako, UTG/Leapers or NCStar sight that will run around $30 online at a bunch of different places.

A high mounted red dot with a lower 1/3 cowitness setup can still be used with fixed sights pretty well.

 

[bgdv1]

Interesting you mention that. While on the phone I asked how much to buy a set of the stock iron sights for the 15-22 from S&W. $19.99 for the front and $29.99 for the rear, plus shipping. Maybe I can find someone on here who has replaced their stock sights with BUIS or MBUS and wants to sell theirs.

Not sure the best way to go about looking for that. I don't want to get the moderators mad at me for posting that in the wrong area of the forum.

I agree they seem to be built as more as a "last resort" than a "normal use" sight. I got the MOE version because the difference in price between it and the base model 15-22 was far less than buying just the MBUS, and you get the rear stock and grip with it to boot. The way everyone was buying them so ravenously made me think they were a bit higher quality than they are. Still, they aren't terrible, but certainly not as nice as iron sights. Once I get a red dot it will be less of an issue. Although I am still stressing they learn to use the iron sights, so a co-witness setup is probably in my future. Seems to be the best of both worlds.

-Tim

i have my factory rear sight. $20 shipped if you want it.

 

[Bitbyte]

UPDATE:

I received the replacement MBUS. The big hole doesn't have the flash in it but the small hole still isn't centered. Oh well. I'm still happy they took care of me.

 

[tacticool22]

Tim. None of the MAGPUL rear sights I have seen have the smaller aperture in the exact center of the larger one. It probably does have something to do with distance shooting VS close in shooting.
MAGPUL has some very high quality stuff, that's why I carry their line of products.
Anything injection molded or machined will have a bad part during a run. A little flash is no big deal. It looks like it was a short shot too. See the void in the upper right of the sight above the peep? That's an odd combo, but molding is still an inexact science. QC didn't catch it (they're human after all) but CS took care of you. All is good now;-)

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

UPDATE:

I received the replacement MBUS. The big hole doesn't have the flash in it but the small hole still isn't centered. Oh well. I'm still happy they took care of me.

Did you get Gen1 or Gen2? My Gen1 rear sight small aperture appears perfectly centered with the large.

 

[corpulent]

I don't think Gen 2 is available yet. It's been "coming soon" for a year. The rep told me they should be out in February.

 

[Jav]

Here's mine:

The front:

 

[Bitbyte]

Tim. None of the MAGPUL rear sights I have seen have the smaller aperture in the exact center of the larger one. It probably does have something to do with distance shooting VS close in shooting.
MAGPUL has some very high quality stuff, that's why I carry their line of products.
Anything injection molded or machined will have a bad part during a run. A little flash is no big deal. It looks like it was a short shot too. See the void in the upper right of the sight above the peep? That's an odd combo, but molding is still an inexact science. QC didn't catch it (they're human after all) but CS took care of you. All is good now;-)

I saw that void, yes. Oddly, it's in the same exact place on the replacement sights they sent me. So it must be a defect in the mold. Although I'd think they had more than one set of molds and it's surprising i'd get another sight from the same mold.

I know they get flash on them sometimes, I just didn't want to be the proud owner of something that should have been caught by QC.

 

[Bitbyte]

Did you get Gen1 or Gen2? My Gen1 rear sight small aperture appears perfectly centered with the large.

Gen 1, and the orientation is very clearly towards the top of the large aperture.

Not a big deal, I usually shoot with the small one anyhow, I have too much trouble getting a centered sight picture with the big one.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Gen 1, and the orientation is very clearly towards the top of the large aperture.

.

I couldn't shoot with a sight like that.... I'd get dizzy and disoriented... and have to return home from the range for a six pack.

 

[Bitbyte]

I couldn't shoot with a sight like that.... I'd get dizzy and disoriented... and have to return home from the range for a six pack.

Usually the six pack makes me dizzy and disoriented. Does it have the opposite effect when you are already dizzy and disoriented?

 

[tacticool22]

I saw that void, yes. Oddly, it's in the same exact place on the replacement sights they sent me. So it must be a defect in the mold. Although I'd think they had more than one set of molds and it's surprising i'd get another sight from the same mold.

I know they get flash on them sometimes, I just didn't want to be the proud owner of something that should have been caught by QC.

That's very odd. In order for material to be missing in the part, there has to be extra material in the mold, and vice versa.
Molds flash when there is extra pressure and/or material and have short shots (parts with voids) when there is too little pressure and/or material. Or bad gate placement. Or the mold is worn out.
BTW I am a mold maker by one of my trades.