mild .357 loads using fast-burning powders?

[Lou_NC]

Folks,
I've been thinking of switching to .357 brass in my .357 revolvers and Marlin 1894 rifle instead of .38 special brass, to eliminate the potential for the fouling and erosion of the chambers by using a steady diet of .38 special brass in these guns.

However, I can't seem to find any published .357 load data that lists the typical fast-burning powders used in light .38 special loads, such as AA #2, Bullseye, Clays, etc. All the .357 data seems to "start" with the slower powders such as AA #5, Unique, Universal Clays, etc. I have a good supply of fast powders on hand and would like to use them in the .357 loads. I'm loading 158 grain cast bullets in both semi-wadcutter and round nose configurations.

I've been tempted to just use the .38 special data and ignore the extra 1/8" difference in case length (effectively increasing case volume/decreasing seating depth over the .38 special by using .357 brass).

Over the years I've been reloading, I've seen cautions about seating bullets too far and driving up pressures, but never anything about seating bullets out further than "spec". In fact, regarding bottleneck case rifle reloading, I've seen advice to the effect that it is acceptable to seat bullets further out in order to minimuze bullet "jump" to engage the rifling to increase accuracy.


My questions are threefold:

1) Have folks done the substitution of .357 brass for .38 spl. brass in these fast-burning loads without issue?

2) Is there any documented advice against doing this?

3) Can you steer me to any web data that show the use of these fast powders with .357 loads, that I may have missed?


Thanks,
Lou

 

[OKFC05]

Where to start?
Using .357 brass for moderate loads is fine, but if you put a light PPC or bullseye load into the rifle, you risk a stuck bullet, big time.

My old Winchester manual has many .357 loads using Win 231 for both lead and jacketed bullets that are reduced velocity. I've used them for decades.
Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com
Go to "rifles" and click ".357 magnum" for many reduced loads in the Hodgdon data that are safe for rifles.

Recommend you crimp your jacketed bullets in the crimp grooves and don't worry about "extended bullet seating for accuracy." In my experience it's a second order effect at best with this cartridge.
It is more important the bullet stay put during the stress of loading in the rifle.

 

[retired2006]

Try this website, it has some loads like you are looking for:


357 Magnum Load Data - Handloads.Com

 

[Fishslayer]

Edit: OOPS! Forgot about the rifle loads. No clue how to go about that.

I HAVE used Bullseye & Green Dot for moderate pistol loads with 125gr JHP.

 

[Steve C]

Here is a PDF of some older .357 mag information from Accurate that has loads using AA#2. members.cox.net/scollins15/transfers_public/ACCURATE 357MAG.pdf
You can use .38 spl data in the .357 mag for .38 spl velocity loads. The small difference in case capacity makes little difference.

When I load .38 spl data in the .357 mag its usually the top .38 spl load as there's no danger in even reaching .357 pressure. Anywhere in between the data works fine too.

 

[buck460XVR]

Hornady shows a rifle load with clays for their 158 lead RN, should be close enough to find a start with.

2.8 start...........650 fps out of a 16'' barrel.

4.3 max............1000 fps out of a 16'' barrel.

COL of 1.590

SPM Primer

.357 brass


As always, I advise you to verify these loads with another source.

 

[valkyriekl]

For my "full power" .38 Special loads (in .38 Special cases), I'll use 3.5gr Bullseye, 3.6gr AA#2, 4.0ish W231, or 5.8gr AA#5, under a 158gr LSWC bullet with good results.

For comparable .38 Special-class loads in .357 Magnum cases, I've shot 4.0gr of either AA#2 or W231 beneath a 158gr LSWC bullet in the longer Magnum cases and they worked fine (though I thought the AA#2 load was a touch snappier than the W231 load)--it's about what Steve C said about higher-end .38 Special loads in the longer .357 Magnum cases, and they felt like .38 Special loads.

YMMV, of course.

 

[Lou_NC]

Folks, thanks for sharing the links, data, and opinions!

I didn't mention it, but these loads will be used for cowboy action shooting, hence the usage in both rifle and revolver. There are a good number of .357 "cowboy" loads listed on the powder manufacturers' websites, but they invariably list loads for their "new" cowboy powders. This is fine with me, but as I said, I'd prefer to use the tradiitonal fast-burning pistol powders that I have on hand first.

Thanks for all the help!

Lou

 

[dave b]

Why couldn't you use mid 38 spl loads in 357 brass? Like 3-3.5 gr Bullseye.

 

[Lou_NC]

Why couldn't you use mid 38 spl loads in 357 brass? Like 3-3.5 gr Bullseye.

I believe I could, and will most likely do exactly that. I was just asking other folks whether they've done it themselves, or whether there is published data supporting it that I may have missed.

Lou

 

[TSQUARED]

The printed Hodgdon manual lists lots of data for lead bullets in 357 Magnum cases under their cowboy action section. I have also used reduced loads of American Select and Titegroup with jacketed bullets which approximate the 38 Special loads in several of my revolvers. Trail Boss has become my favorite powder for lead bullets in these straight walled cases since it is virtually impossible to double charge a case.

 

[Hoptob]

My questions are threefold:

1) Have folks done the substitution of .357 brass for .38 spl. brass in these fast-burning loads without issue?
There are no issues. Any load that can be safely fired in 38spl brass can be also safely fired in 357mag brass (in 357mag revolvers).

2) Is there any documented advice against doing this?
No, 357mag revolvers are meant to be used with 357mag brass.

3) Can you steer me to any web data that show the use of these fast powders with .357 loads, that I may have missed?
All powder manufacturers web sites have this information -- Hodgdon, Accurate, Aliant, VV.

Mike

 

[nitro-express]

I have limited experience, but 38 and 357 do act differently. I came across an old Skeeter article and he had a Red Dot load that looked interesting, I loaded some and they work for me. They should be a dandy cowboy load.

I prefer to use 357 brass in a 357. Availability and price differences were an issue at one time, no so much now.

Pretty much every course on shooting teaches to look at the gun to see what ammo to use, and them look at the ammo headstamp to see if it is the right ammo. It seems to me that as a responsible reloader, I have a moral obligation to "NOT" create any booby traps for anyone, including myself. The human brain is fallible, we can and do forget, enough said.

357 mag load with Red Dot. For my SAA NF

 

[Nevada Ed]

357 Magnum and the Literature

 

[Calliope]

Light loads in .357 brass is about all I load.
I use Clays, HP38/231, 7625, Universal.
I find a lot of my data in the Loadbooks USA 357 Mag Handgun Rifle Reloading Manual.
Also the Lyman #47 and Speer #11 loading manuals.
With some loads I use a .060" X .360" vegetable fiber wad under the bullet to take up air space and reduce smoke. (never push the wad down onto the powder charge, it must be at the base of the bullet).
I use the softest bullets I can find for light loads, usually that means the swaged bullets from Speer, Hornady, Magnus and Remington.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

There's nothing wrong with using .38 Special load data in .357 Magnum brass but like cautioned above, don't use the very lowest starting load data because of the possibility of sticking a bullet in the barrel.

When loading .38 Special pressure loads in .357 Magnum brass I usually use the Max charge weight for the .38 Special data or just below the Max charge if that's a more accurate load. That method works very well for me.

 

[BE Mike]

I've been using 4.0 grains of American Select, under a cast 158 gr. SWC in .357 mag. cases for my Rossi Ranch Hand. It is a mild load and burns clean. You could substitute a similar charge of Bullseye.

 

[moxie]

I've done it and without issues. But I don't anymore. I load .357 cases with magnum loads. So when I pick up a .357 round, I pretty much know it's at least mid-range magnum. When I pick up a .38 round I know it's going to be lighter. That carbon buildup is no big deal. Just scrub with a bronze chamber brush. I've never experienced "erosion" of the chambers shooting .38s out of a .357. Don't understand that!

If you do decide to do light loads in mag cases, there is absolutely no need to crimp them. The crimp is to prevent "bullet jump" resulting from heavy recoil which is not a factor with light loads. Just remove the flare (belling) from the expander die.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Saving the old & tired

I started using my "old & tired" nickel 357 cases (that I can't bring myself to throw away) for light target loads with 148 L-HBWC & 4.4grs of Green Dot, or 6.0grs/158gr L-SWC.

 

[Calliope]

Forgot to add Trail Boss is a great powder for .38 spl power loads in magnum brass.
My favorite light target load is a Hornady 140 grain LFP cowboy bullet in magnum brass over 4.0 Trail Boss or 3.8 Clays with a wad. Those are the 2 best powders for light lead loads in magnum brass.