MIM Parts. Are they poor quality?

The gun manufacturing industry is a fickled thing. On the one hand the manufacturers sometimes ignore their base. The corporate boys decide to eliminate domestic production, jobs, quality...until they drive the business under. Look at Winchester.

The Model 70 argument always makes me chuckle. The gun is now being made again, in the USA (South Carolina) under a licensing agreement with FNH. Guess what? They are making it the old way. Gone is the push feed and modern safety!!!! And the price is reasonable. Is it perfect...no. ;) Will it replace a Pre WWII model...nope. Do you think FNH listened to what folks wanted in the gun before ramping up production...you betcha! :)

But it sure is refreshing to see it back into production again and at a price a average guy can afford. Back are a couple of the older style specs...classic Pre-64 Controlled Round Feeding, Three-Position safety...

You asked, they listened. Wish that S&W would do some of the same.

giz
 
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Anyone wishing to throw away those trash MIM guns let me know; I've got a big wastebasket. Shipping is on you but I might pay the transfer fee's.
 
i make it a point not to buy the things in the first place,then i don't worry about throwing them away.
 
Aussie44 said:
I have had MIM Smiths come thru my shop and I could not believe some of the tollerances .012 B/C Gap which was fine by the factories specs.Ken
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You must be unlucky or have handled the lemon out of the QA lot. I've had 4 Model 500s and none of them had a B/C gap of more than 0.004", yes, no typo, 4 thousandths of an inch. Yes, a Freedom Arms gun will probably be closer than that but few if any production revolvers. Not much to complain about there.

Sandia National Labs, sister lab to Los Alamos, was one of the MIM pioneers and Sandia is highly regarded for its technical excellence. Don
 
The proof for me is in the shooting. I have more than one S&W revolver with MIM parts. I reserve the right not to quote numbers in the out side chance my wonderful wife may read this post. But total round count is in the 100,000 plus range for center fire with no MIM parts failures, zero. I have a 617 pre lock with over 30,000 rounds though it… no failures. I do think the newer guns benefit from action work and the factory does a great job. Best advice I can offer is to buy one and try to shoot it out. And if you do send it back they have a lifetime warranty.
 
DonD said:
You must be unlucky or have handled the lemon out of the QA lot. I've had 4 Model 500s and none of them had a B/C gap of more than 0.004", yes, no typo, 4 thousandths of an inch.
Click to expand...

Well I've never handled a 500 because they are banned here.The ones I had come thru were 357 mags.Not all but 2 were .012 B/C Gap the others were still above .006.But that's QC probs and nothing to do with what they are made out of.


Ken
 
I don't have a problem with parts being made with the MIM process. I do have a problem with a company telling only one side of the story. As their processes got cheaper, the cost of S&W revolvers have increased dramatically.

Look at the number of engineering changes that were simply a step that lowered the cost of production.

Modern metalurgy is a wonderful thing. So is the modern CNC equipment. But it's gonna be a hard sell telling me that all these changes heralded by the two processes being combined and the resultant cost savings to S&W ~ resulted in a better gun.


giz
 
gizamo said:
I don't have a problem with parts being made with the MIM process. I do have a problem with a company telling only one side of the story. As their processes got cheaper, the cost of S&W revolvers have increased dramatically.

Look at the number of engineering changes that were simply a step that lowered the cost of production.

Modern metalurgy is a wonderful thing. So is the modern CNC equipment. But it's gonna be a hard sell telling me that all these changes heralded by the two processes being combined and the resultant cost savings to S&W ~ resulted in a better gun.


giz
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Sir, that's rain running down your neck--really! :D

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.
 
I think the biggest problem that people have with MIM parts is they are simply different. if MIM parts were used first and then S&W changed to forged parts, people wouldn't like the forged parts either.
 
Sigh...I think about this stuff too much...

I guess it's time for S&W to make a few value added "Engineering Changes" to put things back on track. Give the customer something that enhanced the gun and added durability, quality, and more stability for the platform.

S&W revolvers have always had four weakness's. Both the cylinder stop and hand windows are thin (part of the frame). The bearing surface where the yoke tube meets the cylinder surface is minimal (Biggest Problem). The extractor ratchets are too small. These are responsible for the bulk of the problems with timing, lock up, and endshake.

If S&W wanted to make a huge improvement to their guns, they should start here.

giz
 
S&W sells to a wholesaler, who marks the gun up and sells it to a retailer, who also marks up. These guys would be happy to tell you that they and their employees deserve to make a living like anybody else. S&W provides a lifetime warranty and is happy to repair the tiniest flaws including RT shipping. That's worth a lot. All things considered, how low could their prices be? How much are you willing to spend? Figure a factory guy needs $50K to survive. Payroll taxes, workman's comp, and the rest add at least $25K to that. How much hand labor can you pay for, after markups?
 
Four pages on this topic since it started THIS MORNING. And I've seen much the same on other websites. Why? If you don't want MIM, don't buy it. But please -- stop preaching.

Jack
 
Hey Jay at lease its not about the lock for once :D , and it has been nice which is a big change for once. Talk about cost and trying to stay within a price range is hard on the factory, but I will pay for it because there isn't any better than a Smith. Most dealers that I know make from 50 to 100 bucks per new gun. There is more in the used than the new, I would say the factory gets $375 to $425 on a new 686 because dealer cost is 500+ for one.
 
pinkymingeo said:
The warranty is still lifetime. Check it at their website.
Click to expand...


Your correct Website:
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CustomContentDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogId=10001&content=24817&sectionId=10504

1. Lifetime Service Policy
We will repair any defect in material or workmanship without charge to the original purchaser for as long as you own the handgun.

However Owners manual states 1 year.
Here is copy and paste to prove it.

limitedwarranty.jpg



Typo?? or is the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing?:D

 
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