misfires on 625 moon clips question

[Form442]

Hi,
I just joined today. I bought a new 625 PC just recently and today fired about 60 rounds through it (10 moon clips). These are all reloads and I had 2 misfires (on 2 separate clips). The primer strike looked quite a bit lighter that the others in the clip and was not enough to set it off. I kept all the headstamps the same on all the clips, but I am guessing that was not enough. I moved the first misfired bullet to another clip and it still would not go off. The second one went off after I dropped the hammer twice on it. I never had problems with my reloads on automatics.
I was going to order some new Starline brass to reload with and only use that on my 625.
Any thoughts on my misfire problem?
thanks,
Z

 

[Deckard]

Welcome to the forum.

I had a simular problem with a Thunder Ranch model. I changed out the firing pin with an Apex firing pin and I have not had any more light strikes.

https://apextactical.com/store/product-info.php?pid4.html

Deckard

 

[BSkerj]

I had the exact same problem with my 625 PC. I took off the grips and found the strain screw had backed out. I put some red loctite on the threads and tightened all the way down..haven't had a problem since, as a matter of fact just fired off 200 today. Some guys here change out the firing pin to a extended one. I never had to go that far. The majority of my shooting with the 625 is now done with Auto Rim brass but I like to use the moon clips on occasion since I have quite a few ACP loaded up for my 645 SW auto. Hope this helps !

 

[Form442]

Thanks guys! My strain screw was out! I will tighten down and get some loctite tomorrow. I will also look at getting the Apex pin too.
Thanks so much! Can't wait to give it another go tomorrow!
Z

 

[Form442]

I just checked my other 625 (a 625 JM), and the screw was seated all the way. I checked my 627 (.38 Super) and the screw was seated all the way too. I just learned something today, thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[k22fan]

Welcome to the forum Form442.

I believe mainspring strain screws do not back out on their own. Often previous owners who do not shoot DA have backed them out to lighten their SA trigger pull and never learned that they made their revolver unreliable in DA. It is also common for sellers to back out strain screws to give buyers the impression that the revolver has an especially good trigger pull. I bet if you just turn it back in it will solve your problem. If it doesn't, first look at the end of the strain screw to see if someone filed it shorter. Some misguided owners do that rather than simply backing the screw out. I have put longer firing pins in moon clip guns but that is not the first thing to change. The longer pins will give you more pierced primers which can be misinterpreted as higher pressure.

Not considering missfires, do you think the PC 625 was worth the extra money compared to your JM 625?

Best regards,

Gil

 

[Form442]

625 JM vs. 625 PC accuracy?

Hi Gil,
Thanks for all the great info, I really appreciate it. This forum is the best.
The PC 625 cost me $929.99 (new) from a local shop that ordered it for me. The JM 625 cost me $825.00 (new) through Gun Broker. I feel those are realistic prices and someone else could certainly get those guns for the same prices if not lower. I put some nice wood Jerry Miculek grips ($65) ordered through Bang-inc.com on the PC gun, so the grips are almost identical (it has no JM initial on the grips) to the JM 625 gun. As far as accuracy, I am an average shot at best and will be able to give you more info on that once I go to a gun range (I just shot it at my friends ranch so far). There I will bench rest it, and also have another friend who is a great shot will tell me the accuracy between the two. I currently have hand loaded up 185 gr. bullets loaded with 5.7 Unique. You can e-mail me at [email protected] if you are interested to hear the results. I will also post to the forum. So far at my friends ranch, both guns seem to be very accurate guns. Neither stands out above the other, so far.

thanks again,
Zoran

 

[Dale53]

k22fan;
Not to be picking on you, but strain screws DO back out on their own (i have had it happen - it is not often but is definitely something to look at from time to time when you are cleaning your gun).

IMO, red loc-tite is TOO much. Blue loc-tite will hold fine and will not overly resist removal, if necessary.

>>>first look at the end of the strain screw to see if someone filed it shorter. Some misguided owners do that rather than simply backing the screw out.<<<

Jerry Miculek is not only one of the finest, if not THE best revolver shooters EVER, he is also a VERY talented Pistol Smith. On his trigger tuning DVD (very good, by the way) he specifically mentions shortening the strain screw to deliver a particular "trigger pull weight", as desired.

I DO agree, that many reliability problems can be traced to "bubba pistol smithing".

Some serious competitors tune their revolvers for very light double action pull - so light that they REQUIRE Federal Primers for reliability (Federal primers are widely known to be "softer" than other brands).

I tune my revolvers to about 9.0 lbs double action to increase reliability with "other" primers. I get NO misfires at 9.0 lbs but when I can get them, I use Federals.

My carry guns use heavier actions - those MUST "go bang" EVERY time without fail.

Just a thought or two...

Dale53

 

[TSQUARED]

Hi,
I just joined today. I bought a new 625 PC just recently and today fired about 60 rounds through it (10 moon clips). These are all reloads and I had 2 misfires (on 2 separate clips). The primer strike looked quite a bit lighter that the others in the clip and was not enough to set it off. I kept all the headstamps the same on all the clips, but I am guessing that was not enough. I moved the first misfired bullet to another clip and it still would not go off. The second one went off after I dropped the hammer twice on it. I never had problems with my reloads on automatics.
I was going to order some new Starline brass to reload with and only use that on my 625.
Any thoughts on my misfire problem?
thanks,
Z

You did not mention which primers you were using. federal primers are softer and will ignite with less force than Winchester or CCI. I have lightened the DA trigger on my 625 so that it functions reliably with federal primers.

 

[pinkymingeo]

All of my revolvers have action jobs and/or light springs and/or backed-out strain screws and/or Apex firing pins. Each of them goes bang 100% of the time with Federal primers. I load all my ammo and only use Feds, so it's no problem at all. I can tighten things up in a matter of minutes to fire any primer, but why bother? If you don't know anything about S&W revolvers or don't load your ammo, by all means be cautious and conservative. Once you know what you're doing you can discover just what a pleasure they are to shoot with light, smooth DA pulls.

 

[H Richard]

I had an opportunity to be on the range when S&W reps were demo'ing various new products for a group. A 625 JM was one of them and they mentioned to the individuals coming up to shoot the guns how wonderful the trigger was and most all agreed. Until it started misfiring two or three rounds per moon-clip. The rep stated to me it was a custom shop gun, so the trigger may have been set a little too light. When he was busy with something else, I removed the grips and found the strain screw backed out nearly 3 full turns. Whether it was set this way or if it backed out on it's own I don't know, but I do know after I tightened it down as it should have been, it never failed to fire after that.

 

[m657]

I've had a run of increasingly light primer strikes over the last few months on my 625-8. It had the big "Master Blaster" or whichever tune at the S&W factory not long before.

I was beginning to get at least 1 if no 2 light strikes per cylinder full, despite checking/rechecking & tightening the strain screw.

Finally a few weeks ago my cylinder & hammer locked up completely. Had to take it to local 'smith. His dis-assembly (with live rounds) revealed the firing pin had actually come OUT of the frame mount and was lodged down inside somewhere. He never did find the little spring that was missing.

On reassembly, it worked fine for a couple hundred rounds. It had 2 very tight cylinders and I grew tired of messing with ammo that would fit a Wilson case gauge, mount in other cylinders, or fire in other guns without trouble.

I had another 'smith do a little hone job which relieved the tight fit issue. It also, unexpectedly, made it possible to fire rounds WITHOUT the moon clip in place. It had never done that before.

In the last part of the last 500 round practice a few days ago, a few light primer strikes developed again. Strain screw is NOT loose, and appears to never have been shortened.

Now what?

 

[Rolan_Kraps]

I would suggest Locktite BLUE instead of red.

 

[Tom C]

I've had a run of increasingly light primer strikes over the last few months on my 625-8. It had the big "Master Blaster" or whichever tune at the S&W factory not long before.

I was beginning to get at least 1 if no 2 light strikes per cylinder full, despite checking/rechecking & tightening the strain screw.

Finally a few weeks ago my cylinder & hammer locked up completely. Had to take it to local 'smith. His dis-assembly (with live rounds) revealed the firing pin had actually come OUT of the frame mount and was lodged down inside somewhere. He never did find the little spring that was missing.

On reassembly, it worked fine for a couple hundred rounds. It had 2 very tight cylinders and I grew tired of messing with ammo that would fit a Wilson case gauge, mount in other cylinders, or fire in other guns without trouble.

I had another 'smith do a little hone job which relieved the tight fit issue. It also, unexpectedly, made it possible to fire rounds WITHOUT the moon clip in place. It had never done that before.

In the last part of the last 500 round practice a few days ago, a few light primer strikes developed again. Strain screw is NOT loose, and appears to never have been shortened.

Now what?

I confess I am one of the guys who prefers to replace the firing pin with a longer pin. Mine are from Cylinder and Slide shop, but the Apex pin appears to be identical. It provides just a little more reach. I also prefer to do my range work without clips. I will either loose load the .45 ACP or more likely, use .45 AR. My understanding is, up until recently the chambers were cut to headspace .45 ACP without clips. Only recently was the chamber spec changed to lengthen the chamber slightly to make ignition with the short factory firing pin problematical. The long pin takes care of the problem, even with the longer chamber.

On the subject of springs, I tend to use mainsprings slightly lighter than full power factory springs, and lighter rebound springs, but I don’t try to go for a minimum double action trigger pull by going too far with light mainsprings. While I tend to use Federal primers, I also use Winchester and CCI and I don’t have ignition problems with any, even when firing without clips.

My .45s: 25-2 with 5" barrel, 625JM and 625PC.

 

[FEG]

In your case, it was obviously the strain screw. In the past, I had some misfires due to moonclips that became bent from loading/unloading.

I switched to the plastic Rimz moonclips, and I never had any problems again. I use them on my 625 and 610. They are much easier to unload, and they will flex back to their original specs.

Ez Moon Clips

P.S. One of the reasons I always switch to traditional S&W two-piece grips is that the screw is exposed and easily adjusted. They do not seem to ever "back out" on their own.