Model 1 1/2 jamming up

[mmaher94087]

A shot in the dark: in your last photo above, in the frame, to the right of the pin in the hammer that holds the stirrup to the hammer and under the main spring and above the hump of the frame; is that the missing piece or just some gunk? It's small and triangular.

 

[rta72]

A shot in the dark: in your last photo above, in the frame, to the right of the pin in the hammer that holds the stirrup to the hammer and under the main spring and above the hump of the frame; is that the missing piece or just some gunk? It's small and triangular.

Thanks again for all of your input!

mmaher94087: I'm not 100% sure what location you mean, but I think it's gunk or the photo playing tricks.

Actually that extension/arm does not look like it has been recently chipped and it would have been extremely evenly chipped if that has happened.

I was thinking that might that bolt extension/arm possibly bent little outwards as the angled tab goes under it when cocking the hammer and/or the tab is little bit worn on the tip of the higher end, so it won't contact the arm as it should?

I might pressing the arm down and then try cocking it. See if that makes a difference?

This is the point it jams up.

If I press down on the arm at the jamming point like the arrow shows in the picture the cylinder will rotate normally.

 

[GHJ]

As shown in the last two photographs the stud on the hammer should be pushing the sprung arm of the cylinder locking bolt down and not pushing it outwards. Pushing it sideways should only occur when the hammer is locking bolt end going down when the trigger is pulled so that the stud can return behind the locking bolt.
It seem that the stud is worn at its front bottom end and thus is unable to catch on push down on the back and top of the the locking bolt.
Gwyn

 

[rta72]

A word of caution: Gun Part Corporation lists the part but I have no idea what the part is that they are showing. It is NOT the part you need.

Thanks for the warning, i noticed it too that it did not look right. Anyways I also noticed that they don't ship outside North America/U.S. terrorities. I might be able to order it indirectly, but then it needs to be 100% positively right part. [emoji16]

But if the problem is endeed the hammer angled tab as GHJ suggested. It might be possible weld some extra material and work with that like glowe said.

 

[glowe]

The flag on the cylinder stop assembly is not broken. It appears that it may be bent slightly outward or the stud is rounded in the front, causing the flag to ride over the stud instead of contact the front of it and push it down.

 

[rta72]

Here is the part. Bent outwards, should it be like this or straight?

Edit: It seems to look like it's in a decent shape?

 

[BMur]

Whatever you do, avoid the temptation to simply bend it back to original configuration. This condition is caused by metal fatigue or a hairline crack in the metal that is not visible. The part can be repaired with heat treatment or a needed weld. Or you can spend several months locating a replacement part that this forum seems to prefer.
I would simply heat treat it but I like getting my hands dirty and saving time and money. Plus the dream and simplicity of replacing a part does not normally exist. They always require fitting. By the time you find a replacement part and fit it to this gun so that it actually functions? I'll be done with 5 repair jobs. Part of collecting antique guns is getting your hands dirty.

Murph

 

[Lady Smith]

I think a heat treatment to bend it back would embrittle the part more than it is already.
Also, I think rta72 doesn't live in th U.S and it's already hard to find parts for antique S&W there, so outside the U.S. it's worse.
Maybe the best thing to do is to find someone who is able to rebuild the part.

 

[rta72]

Nothing more fun than getting hands dirty with these old guns, actually with all guns.

But i'm not really familiar with heat treating parts, need to look into it, but also don't want to break the part. So thanks cautioning me not to bend it. [emoji16] Otherwise I might have done it in a weak moment. [emoji16]

Yeah not in the U.S. so might not have any luck finding spares in the old continent.

 

[BMur]

Clarification??

I'm sorry,
I'm not following the last two posts? Don't heat treat it because it will become more brittle? Or you might break it?
Technically , the part is already broken. Isn't it? It's non functional so it's broke. Or maybe your position is it's almost broke don't make it worse by fixing it? LOL.
I haven't counted how many parts I have welded which is another term for heat treating. Different degrees of weld depend on the specific damage to the part in question. An example is a blacksmith achieves high enough temperature to pound red hot metal together. That is a form of welding or heat treating iron that is very strong!
This part in question is low grade spring steel so it's already brittle by temper. It's very likely cracked already so heat is the simplest and fastest solution.
Or you can cut, channel, and pin a new piece of spring steel to the back of the part. That would work extremely well, in fact better than this original early design, but that procedure is time consuming. In fact, many manufacturers originally used this superior technique. My made in USA needle nose pliers have been to see the elephant more than once. See photos.
So in your case I would reach out to a knowledgeable welder / gunsmith and explain what the part is and have him/her make the repair.

Murph

 

[BMur]

Already been fixed before

You know?
The more I look at your part the more Im seeing an old repair? Look closely! That my friends is not original!! It's already been pinned once before! Looks like a low temp weld on top as well. But hey? What do I know?

 

[Lady Smith]

The part isn't broken, the part seems to be bent.
I think doing a heat treatment only to bend it back to its original configuration would brittle the steel more than it currently is.
I always heard this, especially when you want to bend some motorcycle parts after a crash, but maybe there are some methods we don't know here. I'm just curious.

Even many gunsmiths here didn't want to repair the hand of my no2 for this reason...

 

[rta72]

Thanks for the good posts.

My comment meant that I don't want to break it doing something wrong with it. Not that it would break due to heat treating it. I need to look in more closely on that option.

My first impression was that the mark on that arm is caused by that tab grinding on it. But it might be also fixed previously as you said Bmur.

 

[BMur]

Temper is gone

So close examination of the repair reveals a long history of repairs!
If you look closely where the repair meets original metal you can clearly see a waver( like a snake in the river). The part was bent back and forth a few times. Then the grinder was used several times which introduces high heat and destroys the temper. Then metal was added after the part cracked on top from bending without heat and was subsequently soldered with a low temp weld but hot enough to further damage what little temper was left.
Then it was drilled, ground to a wedge angle and a new piece of likely tempered metal pinned and hammered on to add surface to what was left of the original part. Likely soldered again to fill the line gap.
So this part has been heat damaged several times without correct re-tempering.
The correct repair at this point would be to cut off the cancer all the way back Approximately 1/4 inch beyond where it intersects the main body. Leaving a channel on that side in which to fasten new modern and very strong spring steel via a dual pin arrangement drilled and pinned into the side. Not unlike the pin you see on the repair.
It's actually not difficult but it is time consuming. It's also very strong!

Heat treating is not an option at this point since it has a metal insert "and" has been soldered. Heating it would only melt the solder, which would loosen the wedge repair and it would likely fall off and basically get you nowhere. The procedure above would work perfectly!

Murph

 

[rta72]

Might be stupid question, but I suppose heating it and then bending it is not the solution to the problem? [emoji16]

 

[BMur]

Reheating to temper is no longer an option

I'm sorry but the part has been soldered to fill the gap of the pinned wedge. If you heat it the solder will melt and the repair will fall off or come loose.
A re-temper for spring steel of this low grade type is achieved at approximately 500-700 degrees Fahrenheit followed by induced air cooling. ( A small fan).
The solder will not sustain that low temp without melting (350-400 degrees F)enough to fall apart.
You could try using a pin type (gas) torch and heat the original metal right where it meets the main body, gently tapping the bitter end of the bolt until it bends back? But it's risky. I'd try it. But that's me.

Or better yet use 4" needle vice grips and lock that repair in place with a gentle but firm locked grip prior to heating the part. That might keep it together with low heat applied as mentioned. Air cool the assembly completely before removing the vice grips . Remember you do this at your own risk. The correct repair was described in detail in my previous post. This might work but no guarantees!!

Murph