Model 15 - For the USAF SPs

[MSgtJimmy]

I have seen photos from the 60's where AP's were wearing swiven holsters. Granted, they are MUCH easier when you spend time seated in a vehicle. I like the newer issued ones. They seemed, to me, to present the gun just at the right angle for a natural draw.

 

[cjtraining]

AP Holster '63-'67

This is the type of holster we used at McCoy AFB Fla. (SAC), from 1963-1967. The Security Section used the swival holster on a web belt with a dump pouch, a belt pouch for a first aid pack, which was perfect for holding a pack of Marlboros and a Zippo, and a canteen.

The Law Enforcement Section wore the same holster on an adapter for a black leather belt and cross strap and dump pouch. We also had a night stick with a leather carrier. No handcuffs, they were at Base Police Headquarters. Go figure.

The M10 shown is the type of revolver we carried. They were all beat to ****, terribly worn and stamped "Property of U.S. Navy". As I was leaving in 1967 the Security Section was being issued M15.

 

[Gunsandguitars]

Just remembered an episode of Star Trek from 1969,
Looked it up and its Part 36 "Tomorrow is Yesterday"

They basicly go back in time and get caught by Air Force security .

I viewed it on You Tube,
Weird thing is they are wearing white plastic imitation stag handled Model 10's turned backwards on their left hips.

Here is a link for those who are fans.

Tomorrow Is Yesterday - Kirk interrogated - YouTube

Those "crossdraw holsters, "stag" grips, ascots and berets were all standard uniforms of the day of the SAC Honor Guard at SAC HQ in Offutt AFB, NE. Guess Rodenberry thought they'd look good on his show.

I was a USAF SP for 14 years before I retrained into training and Ed. The Model 15 was extremely accurate. I shot on the PACAF Rifle/Pistol Team in 1980, which for the revolver was a modified PPC course.

I too was able to earn a Bronze Leg Match Medal years later in Minot.

Some of the M-15's in service had TT/TH, some did not. Some of the M-15's were polished blue, but as they were turned in for arsenal refitting, they came back parkerized.

Does anybody else remember the PGU-12 ammo? We were issued that in the mid 70-s...the bullet was set deep into the cartridge case, causing a compressed loading. Don't know why. SOMEBODY thought it was a good idea.

 

[galena]

It was my understanding that the PGU-12B round was an attempt at a +P .38 Special round to increase the effectiveness of the .38 Sp round. I do not know all the ballistic particulars of the round but it was definetely a high pressure round. The first ones I saw was in the late 1970s while I was assigned to AFOSI Headquarters in DC. I was an instructor at the OSI Academy and was the firearms instructor and the Marksmanship Manager for AFOSI. Out issue handgun at the time was the S&W M-36 with a 3" barrel. We found that the PGU-12B ammo was shooting the M-36s loose in very short fashion. We noticed it first on the Academy guns as they were shot much more than the guns in the field. We sent several to the Lackland AFB Marksmanship gunsmiths and they advised that the PGU-12B not be used in the M-36.
That recommendation led to the ultimate adoption of an Officer's sized 1911 built for OSI by the Lackland smiths. Keep shootin'

 

[Bat Guano]

I used the swivel holster with wire hangers for the Victory Model stateside and the M15 overseas. At Ubon, Thailand I worked security at TOC most of the time, and was allowed to use a locally made spring-tensioned cross draw holster on a web belt in 66-67. (I also had some definitely non-Geneva convention Keith type hand loads in the gun that no one knew about, along with extra ammo.)

So what was authorized was not always what got used.

 

[Shooting Padre]

I see reference to a 'Bronze Leg" match here. What was that, I never heard of that during my tour, 66-70.

 

[gunblade]

[QUOTE That recommendation led to the ultimate adoption of an Officer's sized 1911 built for OSI by the Lackland smiths. [/QUOTE]

And what a piece of work that was.

 

[kwill1911]

[QUOTE That recommendation led to the ultimate adoption of an Officer's sized 1911 built for OSI by the Lackland smiths.

And what a piece of work that was. [/QUOTE]

What was wrong with it?

Thanks,
Kevin Williams

 

[Gunsandguitars]

It was my understanding that the PGU-12B round was an attempt at a +P .38 Special round to increase the effectiveness of the .38 Sp round. I do not know all the ballistic particulars of the round but it was definetely a high pressure round. The first ones I saw was in the late 1970s while I was assigned to AFOSI Headquarters in DC. I was an instructor at the OSI Academy and was the firearms instructor and the Marksmanship Manager for AFOSI. Out issue handgun at the time was the S&W M-36 with a 3" barrel. We found that the PGU-12B ammo was shooting the M-36s loose in very short fashion. We noticed it first on the Academy guns as they were shot much more than the guns in the field. We sent several to the Lackland AFB Marksmanship gunsmiths and they advised that the PGU-12B not be used in the M-36.
That recommendation led to the ultimate adoption of an Officer's sized 1911 built for OSI by the Lackland smiths. Keep shootin'

Thank you, sir. We never SHOT the PGU-12...we just CARRIED it. Always qualified with Federal 148 grain match wad cutters. That was the way they did things, back then.

Hmmm...a +p round nose full metal jacket. Don't think they quite understood terminal ballistics back then, did they?

A young man who worked for me in SAC cross trained into OSI. One night at his house for dinner, he showed me his little cut down 1911. He hated it, I was intrigued.

I understand OSI is carrying the SIG P-229 now. Oh, and hey! When are you guys gonna get a show like your Naval Counterparts? )

 

[gunblade]

And what a piece of work that was.

What was wrong with it?

Thanks,
Kevin Williams[/QUOTE]

I was a CATM instructor (Combat Arms Training & Maintenance)in the Air Force. We trained the cops and the OSI as well as everyone else that needed to qualify with a weapon...also did the maintenance on the weapons. The 1911A1s that the gunsmith shop made up for the OSI were chopped full sized guns as the Colt Officer's Model didn't exist yet. I remember them having ambi safety levers attached with eyeglass screws that were constantly coming out, and magazines that were cut off at the bottom with a welded on floorplate that weren't always interchangable between guns. They weren't very reliable on the range at least and some agents had a hard time qualifying with them. The little .45 was replaced with the M9 and later the M-11, which is basically a Sig 228.

 

[Gunsandguitars]

I see reference to a 'Bronze Leg" match here. What was that, I never heard of that during my tour, 66-70.

KCMitch, the leg match was an NRA sanctioned match for military (or at least USAF) personnel. They would make an announcement of the date and time and give a contact number.

You signed up and showed up. They provided the weapons and ammo. The Top 10% of shooters would be awarded the "USAF Excellence in Competition Pistol Shot Badge" (whew! what a mouthful) and, if I remember right 3 points towards a silver badge and eventually a gold badge. But those matches you had to seek out and shoot at your own expense. An excellent program that was rarely used, even back in the late 70's/early 80's. The USAF, which used to have a top-drawer shooting/competition program back in the 50's and 60's, stop putting a lot of emphasis in it by then. Sure hope things have changed.

 

[Stanlak]

holster/afosi .45

The holster and ammo pouch pictured above were used by USAF Security Police in the 70's and 80's.

The AFOSI modified .45's were WW II surplus pistols purchased from the Navy. The model 36 in use was deemed to be not powerful enough, but the Air Force didn't want to spend $300 per weapon to purchase 357 mags. They bought the surplus M1911's for $80 each and had the armorers at Lackland take 1" off the barrel and butt. We were issued one modified magazine that fit the new cut down weapon, and two full sized mags that stuck out the bottom of the butt of the weapon. We put shoe goo on the bottom of the full sized mags to keep the mag from riding up and jamming, and to protect out suits from wear.

Mine was made by Singer, the sewing machine people. I recently found out that these are rare and only 500 were made for the military. The short modified mags held 5 rounds.

My weapon jammed every 2 shots consistantly, and was totally unreliable.

 

[Sodapop69]

15-3

S&W model 15-3, circa 1969

 

[Sodapop69]

USAF Security Police

I had the opportunity to carry all but the 1911 during my USAF Security days, '88-'96

 

[bgrafsr]

I know this is an old thread, but since it has been revived, I thought I would post pics of my two U.S.A.F. Model 15's I bought last year. I have the original stocks for both guns, but I think they look much better with the Target stocks on them.

 

[Sodapop69]

Very nice. I have my original grips for my 15-3 but prefer the Targets. Again, Very Nice.

 

[bgrafsr]

Looking at he guns, I think the non-football stocks should go on the 15-1, and the football stocks should go on the 15-2. What do you all think?

 

[Sodapop69]

Grips

Older grips on older revolver, just my opinion.

 

[Texas Star]

Looking at he guns, I think the non-football stocks should go on the 15-1, and the football stocks should go on the 15-2. What do you all think?

Depending on the individual frames and stocks, one may fit a particular gun better. That's how I'd decide.

If both sets of grips fit both guns well, older with older.

Personally, I use either Pachmayr Presentation or Uncle Mike's rubber grips on most revolvers.
The exception is when I've used smooth rosewood S&W presentation grips, sometimes with Tyler adaptor.

 

[CapnMic]

I was issued a model 15 with target hammer and target trigger .. it was parkerized .. sort of disappointed I didn't get a pretty blue steel version .. Carswell AFB TX - Security Police (SAC) .. shot expert on first qualification and never wanted a different gun .. sure do miss that one ... now have three of them and looking for one with USAF property stamped on the upper frame ...

Would pay premium price for a Security Police Commemorative too if S&W ever produced one to SAC specifications