model 15 help please?

[lrrifleman]

Suzie,

You are off to a great start. You can never harm a barrel by cleaning it.

I shoot lead 99% of the time. I clean my handguns after every outing, whether I shoot a 30 round match or a couple of hundred rounds.

Scratches shouldn't affect accuracy. You won't see much twist, I believe that it is one revolution every 18" for a 38.

You mentioned earlier that you don't have a smith when you were talking about drilling and tapping for a scope base, is that because he quit on you? I ask because it may be beneficial to slug the barrel, if you feel that there is damage to the bore.

A few rounds of hollow base wadcutters should give you a good indication of the accuracy left in your barrel

 

[susieqz]

i ordered some chore boy just in case, but i still wanna know what people did 60 years ago.
yeah, the smith quit n i won't even try working with him.
next closest is 90 miles/ one way which hurts my back.
i'm not gonna get a dot for this thing til it shows me it's worth keeping.
i have no idea how the prison guard got scratches n abrasions in the barrel.
all my stuff is brass, aluminum n plastic. he must have used steel.
i didn't test the gun today. i'll do that tomorrow, because i bet after i do i'm gonna feel real bad, but tomorrow is my shoot all i want day so after i get depressed, i'll shoot some tight groups with my 22/45.
the next gun show here is next april, so i'm stuck with this gun til then.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
Sue it is a shame none of us live close, most anyone here would
meet you someplace to help.
One thing I would try a box of jacketed or tmj [speer blazer]
bullets.
To rule out the lead bullets are causing problens.

 

[susieqz]

k, i'll try jacketed bullets first.
i got lots of those because they are cheaper.
i know you guys would help in person, you sweet things.
.still, just hearing your thots here is helpful.
gimmie lots of things to try.
i'd rather keep this gun.
i'm in love with the trigger.
i wanna marry it.

so, if i sell it, first i gotta get another one n move all the springs into it which sounds kinda hard.
this gun would be fine for a combat shooter that shoots torso targets at 7 yards, or someone who wants a defense gun for the nightstand.
it's just i don't need that kinda gun.

 

[lrrifleman]

Suzie,
Sixty so years ago, most of the revolver shooting was with lead, and not with jacketed bullets. Discipline was, high velocity rounds would either be jacketed bullets or lead bullets with gas checks. Generally, every shooting session would be followed by a thorough cleaning with Hoppes and a bronze brush. Typically, leading would result from one of three conditions: failure to clean after a shooting session, shooting soft lead bullets fast, or shooting hard cast bullets even faster. When leading became an issue and affected accuracy, handguns made a trip to the 'smith where the 'smith either used a Lewis Lead Remover or they would plug the barrel at one end and use mercury to loosen and float the lead out of the grooves.

Please, don't take this the wrong way. My K22 and my 2 K38s only ever see lead bullets. For a while, the 38s shot softer swaged bullets until I started casting. One K38 and the K22 have been around for almost 40 years, and I have yet to have a leading problem. I clean each revolver after each shooting session, or after every 100 rounds, whichever comes first. I use an oversized brush on the 38s, and I try to avoid the nylon brushes. I rarely use anything exotic to clean the chambers and bore, other than Hoppes and the bronze brush. I have never had to resort to a Lewis Lead Remover. Once every 500-750 rounds I may use a little of the RB stuff I had mentioned, but my cleaning routine hasn't required it.

I am certain that you maintain your firearms well, but you don't know about previous owners. One thing that I have learned from shooting high power rifle competitions, is that the firearm's accuracy comes from the last inch or two from the muzzle. Take a close look, to see if there is distinct rifling present, or if the bore appears to be smooth, or damaged.

I realize that your targets may be "gone with the wind", but these questions should be easy to answer from memory. You have said that the groups are running about an inch and a half at 7 yards or so. Are the widest parts of the group consistently left right, or up and down? Up and down spreads can suggest either errors in your sight picture, or variations in powder charges. Left and right spreads can suggest either: trigger control issues, wind, or sidearm issues. If the grouping is wide all around, more like a shotgun pattern, that would narrow the issue to your barrel.

It is a shame that you don't have access to a Ransom Rest, which would remove all of the variables from the testing!

I would not give up on your Model 15, yet. It is in need of some TLC, that is all.

 

[susieqz]

well, ed, i have hoppes n a brass brush, so i guess i'm
set for lead.
i'm cleaning every 120 rounds or so.
that group was not up down or side to side it was in a rough circle.
i'm going out there in a couple hours n shoot with a perfectly clean barrel.
i'll start with some sorta coated semi wad cutters.
i guess i'll move to 8 yards.
that seems kinda silly, because i can throw bullets that far with some accuracy.
i'm really hoping shooter error is involved.
i know what to do about that.
when i got my first handgun, i started at 7 yards n moved back a yard only when groups were good.
i can do that again.
i don't have much hope it's me tho. with my arms rested, i can get a 1'' group at 25 yards with my 22/45.
i kinda think a gun is a gun.

 

[susieqz]

well, some good news. my shooting 6 shots every weekday has worked. i'm comfy with the gun.
more, i now enjoy throwing humongous pieces of metal around.
also, point shooting, i got a 9'' group at 7 yards.
that's about as good as i can do with any gun.
i've been practicing point shooting for months.
the gun was very consistant at 7 yards
i got 4 groups of 1 1/8'' from a rest.
1 1/2'' freehand.
i would have been real happy if these results were at 25 yards.

i wish i had a bulls eye shooter around.
the possibility still exists that the poor performance is due to iron sights.
i'm not willing to spend hundreds on getting it set up for a dot, without knowing if the gun works

 

[lrrifleman]

Suzie,

Buehler use to make a no drill scope mount for S&W revolvers. I had one for my Model 27. While Buehler isn't around any more, you might be able to locate one.

 

[susieqz]

ed, i can find neither that mount or the aimtech mount groo mentioned.
i did send an email to aimtech in case it's available someplace.
i guess i'll post on the buy sell thing here.
it occurs to me if i get a mount i'll only be out the cost of the mount if it doesn't work , because i can always find some use for an extra red dot.

 

[lrrifleman]

Suzie,

The Buehler mount has been out of production for maybe 20 years ... I would not hold your breath waiting to find it.

Thinking about your 1"+ groups at 7 yards. Honestly, that really isn't all that bad. That size group would reflect your natural wobble zone. That 1"+ group at 7 yards may actually be closer to 2" at 25 yards, which isn't something to sneeze at.

You seem to have a personal aversion to iron sights. I know that irons aren't the easiest to shoot, but they will always work, unlike electronic sights that are dependent upon batteries. Since your goal is more target shooting, have you ever tried blackening your front sight? Being a service rifle shooter, I always had my carbide lamp at hand; however, I believe that it was G96 that made an aerosol can of sight black that was called Sight Black. The use of sight black tends to amplify the contrast of the sights, and contributes to a sharper, more precise sight picture.

 

[lrrifleman]

Suzie,

Aimtech catalogs a no drill scope mount for S&W revolvers, the K frame version is catalog number AMSK-1. Jack Weigand also catalogs a no drill scope mount for the K frame S&W.

Ed

 

[susieqz]

ed, red dot batteries last forever.'
i lost track but i have shot around 10,000 rounds using mine in the past 12 months.'
i see no advantage to irons.
i emailed the wrong aimtech.
i have the site for aimtech sights but they have no contact info.
my front sight is now red n the rear is white.
the 6 oclock hold isn't fun with my fav shoot n see targets.
there's a 6'' center bull with 4 3'' bulls, at each corner.
i put an ad here for either sight.
1 1/8 groups at 7 yards means 4'' or more for me at 25 yards.
i won't quit. i'll keep trying.
the m15 is earning its keep as a snake gun
the shot shells give a great pattern at 6'. 22lr ones don't work.
i'm carrying a shot shell before regular ammo.
thanks for weigand. i'll contact him, but i don't see it in his cataloge.

 

[lrrifleman]

Suzie,

PM sent.

A six o'clock hold tends to amplify POA/POI error. Lower your rear sight a few clicks and try a center of mass hold. With this hold, the bullets tend to impact exactly where the sights are.

 

[susieqz]

here's an update on the trials n tribulations of susie, new center fire gunner.
i gave up on iron sights. i could practice for years with no improvement.
but, i don't wanna ship the gun out to get drilled n tapped because that would cost as much as the gun.
got in touch with aimtech n they said they'll have some clamp ons by late summer.
seems like other makers stopped production when s&w started predrilling.
finally, i put a wanted ad in here.
that adorable person, lee barner had a clamp on made by weaver, which he sent me.
i mounted it n it's solid.
hit another snag. the fast fire i wanted only comes with a picatinney mount, but i meed weaver.
found one at midway but it's back ordered.
they can't tell me when they will have the mount as it's past due.
this is driving me crazy because i just gotta know if i have a target gun.
yesterday i went to amazon n ordered a cheapo bushnel tube dot which will at least give me some accuracy.
i should get it tomorrow.
i'll sight it in thursday n on sunday i'll shoot for score.
this isn't a perfect solution.
this gun is supposed to double as a snake gun, but i'll never find a holster to fit.
that;s why i wanted a fast fire. i can get a cowboy holster to fit my m15, even with the mount, but only if i get a micro dot.

well, if i get good groups i'll get a nice micro dot. but only if the gun proves itself.

here's something sad. i was thinking i wanted to have a little collection of 38s from the 80s. at least the m14 n m67 to go with my m15.
but getting red dots mounted is such a hassle i guess i can't do that.
i'm not gonna even try to shoot iron sights again.

since all you guys say this is a target gun, it's gotta be shooter eye error. i'm confident of my grip n trigger discipline.
the scratches n abrasions are not near the end of the barrel. the last inch or so looks fine.
as far as i can tell, all chambers shoot the same.
so, this accuracy problem has to be me, right?

all i need is some so-so accuracy at 25 yards so i can start testing ammo.
in my 22/45 bulk ammo gives me 3'' groups but wolf gives me 1'' groups. so, centerfires are like that?

anyway, i haven't given up.
if mounting a dot doesn't work, there's nothing left to try, so this will be my big push.
so, that's my progress report. no progress.

 

[arjay]

Eyesight can really foul you up.I can't shoot nearly as accurately as I did at 40.Wearing glasses makes the front sight fuzzy and if I take them off the target is just a lost blob.Its frustrating.Hope the dot helps!

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
The two mounts [Picatinny/Weaver] are usually interchangeable .
The factory list them together.

 

[murphydog]

It sounds as though you've made progress since buying your model 15.

The optics are entirely different, but have you considered a set of laser stocks? It is putting a red (or green) dot on target without magnification, so the principle is the same as a red dot optic but mounting is a lot easier.

I did not read all the way back through the thread, but when there is a question of operator contribution to unexpected results having a second shooter try the gun (or observe you) often clarifies matters. Don't know if you have or want that option. Good luck and keep trying!

 

[larry45]

what size bore brush do you you use for cylinders?
i got a 38 brush but i forgot something wider.

I wrap this 38 brush with small strip of cottom material and clean my cylinders.

 

[susieqz]

i shoot at 25 n 50 yards, mostly in bright sun, so i understand a laser
won't work.
if i had a bulls eye shooter around i'd have him try the gun. but i'm on the high plains. nearest neighbor 3 miles.
good tip for cleaning chambers, thanks.
the red dot works for me. i got 5 out of 5 evil bunnies this year. only one was close up point shooting. the rest were from 15 to 30 yards.
the 22/45 with fast fire never misses.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
Sue your mailbox is full, We are a long winded bunch .
LOL