Model 17 4" vs Model 18 4"
- Thread starter zogger
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I don't know beans from apple butter about (most) model number guns---other than knowledge gained by osmosis.
That said, in the beginning---when guns had names instead of relatively inexpensive numbers, There was a K-22 Masterpiece (also a .32 and .38 version---and a .22 Combat Masterpiece (also a .38 version, and not hardly any .32's). The difference (in later guns---after the early 50's) is the (target) Masterpiece's carried a 6" barrel---comparatively larger in diameter (and rib width) than the Combat Masterpiece----4" barrel/narrow rib------never mind some few Combats with 5" barrels.
That's it! Not counting the respective barrel lengths/diameters and rib widths, they're akin to peas in a pod---all the same.
Nowadays, some of the (target) Masterpiece models offer barrel lengths both lesser and greater than 6"----but they're larger in diameter than those fitted to the Combat models. In other words if you have a 4" fat barreled gun it's a version of the target Masterpiece, and if you have a 4" skinny barreled gun it's a Combat Masterpiece by whatever model number is applicable.
Suitably confused? Good---you're supposed to be!
Ralph Tremaine
The gun you've pictured is a 4" K-22 Masterpiece----unfortunately also known as a Model 17---so says me based on the fat barrel.
That said, in the beginning---when guns had names instead of relatively inexpensive numbers, There was a K-22 Masterpiece (also a .32 and .38 version---and a .22 Combat Masterpiece (also a .38 version, and not hardly any .32's). The difference (in later guns---after the early 50's) is the (target) Masterpiece's carried a 6" barrel---comparatively larger in diameter (and rib width) than the Combat Masterpiece----4" barrel/narrow rib------never mind some few Combats with 5" barrels.
That's it! Not counting the respective barrel lengths/diameters and rib widths, they're akin to peas in a pod---all the same.
Nowadays, some of the (target) Masterpiece models offer barrel lengths both lesser and greater than 6"----but they're larger in diameter than those fitted to the Combat models. In other words if you have a 4" fat barreled gun it's a version of the target Masterpiece, and if you have a 4" skinny barreled gun it's a Combat Masterpiece by whatever model number is applicable.
Suitably confused? Good---you're supposed to be!
Ralph Tremaine
The gun you've pictured is a 4" K-22 Masterpiece----unfortunately also known as a Model 17---so says me based on the fat barrel.
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First, a Model 17-3 with a 4" barrel would be an anomaly. At that time, the Model 17 was offered standard with a 6" barrel, not a 4" barrel. An 8 3/8" barrel was an available option.
Now, if the Model 17 in question is a 17-4 made in or after 1986, then yes, it could have a 4" barrel. The difference then, between it and a Model 18-2, would be the barrel profile. The .22 Combat Masterpiece (18-2) had a standard tapered barrel (as seen in your photo). The 4" Model 17-4 with the 4" barrel had the straight sided, heavier barrel, as did all the K-22 Masterpieces (including Model 17s) after the early 1950s.
Now, if the Model 17 in question is a 17-4 made in or after 1986, then yes, it could have a 4" barrel. The difference then, between it and a Model 18-2, would be the barrel profile. The .22 Combat Masterpiece (18-2) had a standard tapered barrel (as seen in your photo). The 4" Model 17-4 with the 4" barrel had the straight sided, heavier barrel, as did all the K-22 Masterpieces (including Model 17s) after the early 1950s.
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What you are calling a Model 17-3 4" is probably a Model 15. A Model 17 .22 would have recessed chambers like your Model 18.
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The 18 will have the ramped Baughman front sight, the 17 will have a flat Patridge front sight. (At least, that’s my understanding from limited reading.). I have a shooter grade K22 Combat, 1955 5 screw. The precursor to your 18 in the photo. Great guns!
SweetMK
Member
Don't forget the 617,,,,,,,,,
especially the "Mountain Gun" version,,,
especially the "Mountain Gun" version,,,
It seems unlikely that the OP would confuse a .38 Special revolver with a rimfire.
As I stated earlier, the 4" unit he asked about is probably a Model 17-4 from 1986 or later. In that case, it would lack the barrel pin. As you noted, a .22 rimfire, even from the late 1980s would still have a counterbored cylinder.
Engine49guy
Member
All K22's have recessed cylinders.
The barrel set pin was deleted by the dash 5 revision, there was no 18-5, instead the Model 17-5 was offered in 4", 6" and 8 3/8".
The 17-5 had a wide rib heavy barrel, so did the early 17-6 but that changed to a full underlug.
People have put 4" Model 18 barrels on older Model 17's but those would have a barrel set pin.
The barrel set pin was deleted by the dash 5 revision, there was no 18-5, instead the Model 17-5 was offered in 4", 6" and 8 3/8".
The 17-5 had a wide rib heavy barrel, so did the early 17-6 but that changed to a full underlug.
People have put 4" Model 18 barrels on older Model 17's but those would have a barrel set pin.
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With the use of the word "by," this is correct. But to be clear, the barrel pin was eliminated in c. 1982, still during the -4 production of both the Model 17 and 18.
True, but again, the 4" option on the Model 17 became available in 1986, during the -4 period. The -5 started in 1988.
.38SuperMan
Member
Marshal Tom
Member
That's all clear as mud and now my head hurts!
I have a pre 17 4” from 1957.
Although I don’t own a model 18, as far as I can tell the only difference would be the serial number.
The 18 as far as i am to understand it is specifically a 4” barrel version of the 17 even though there were a few 4” 17’s made, or at least pre 17’s.
They gave it the model 18 number so people would know it was 4”.
Although I don’t own a model 18, as far as I can tell the only difference would be the serial number.
The 18 as far as i am to understand it is specifically a 4” barrel version of the 17 even though there were a few 4” 17’s made, or at least pre 17’s.
They gave it the model 18 number so people would know it was 4”.
It seems unlikely that the OP would confuse a .38 Special revolver with a rimfire.
As I stated earlier, the 4" unit he asked about is probably a Model 17-4 from 1986 or later. In that case, it would lack the barrel pin. As you noted, a .22 rimfire, even from the late 1980s would still have a counterbored cylinder.
The gun pictured is his model 18. There is some misidentification with the gun in the gun shop because if it is a model 17 it would have a counterbored cylinder
Engine49guy
Member
The Combat Masterpiece (pre 18) was introduced around 1949 and was built with the narrow rib barrel used on the K22 Masterpiece from 1946-1954 , the frame was notched at the front to mate to the barrel cosmetically, around 1954-55 the K22 changed to a new wider rib barrel to weight match it with the .38 and .32 versions, the new versions wide rib at the rear mates to the frame so the frame is not notched.
There were no 4" factory made versions of the wide barrel rib K22 (at least none have surfaced), it is not difficult to swap a Model 18 barrel onto a Model 17 frame but the frame won't be notched.
On the subject of the barrel set pins, the order came down to delete the pin around the time the order came down to cease recessing Magnum cylinders, SW did not waste parts so on certain models like the 27 there are transitional models found with no pin that have recessed cylinders, since the new revision denotes a part changed the revision did not change until the supply of recessed cylinders ran out.
In theory a Model 17-4 without a barrel pin could exist because deleting the pin would not warrant a new revision (btw I have an unpinned 18-4 with a 270k serial prefix).
The SCSW says the 4" hb was introduced in 86 and the 17-5 denotes the new yoke retention system in 1988 so in theory a 4" Model 17-4 hb could exist but again none have surfaced...yet.
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OP
zogger
Member
Thanks for the response. All is interesting. BTW-The picture attached to my post is an 18-2 as stamped on the yoke.
Yes. That was obvious from your post and your photo. I was trying to help you identify the other gun you asked about. I assumed it was a K frame .22. If that is correct, then my first post is likely the answer to your question.
Engine49guy
Member
To those interested in the small changes that occurred in the evolution of the 4" Combat Masterpiece here is a link to a thread from 2014,
Scroll down to post #25 to begin .
Some Combat Masterpiece eye candy
Scroll down to post #25 to begin .
Some Combat Masterpiece eye candy
