model 1891
- Thread starter iby
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Boulder350
Member
The serial number is on the front strap which means it most likely started life as a single shot. Did you look up the serial number in the book "Smith and Wesson 1857-1945"? Does the serial number on the cylinder match the frame?
All Model of 91 revolvers and single shots were made before 1899 so they are all antiques. It was a slow moving gun so the ship dates are all over the place for this gun.
Its a beautiful frame. If you ever want to get rid of it I have a few single shot nickel barrels that would look good on it....
All Model of 91 revolvers and single shots were made before 1899 so they are all antiques. It was a slow moving gun so the ship dates are all over the place for this gun.
Its a beautiful frame. If you ever want to get rid of it I have a few single shot nickel barrels that would look good on it....
rct269
Member
Production dates are generally unavailable----some shipping dates:
Model of 1891 Target Revolver #22530----shipped June 7, 1910
.32 caliber 8" 1st Model Single Shot #14272----shipped October 5, 1895
.22 caliber 6" 1st Model Single Shot #19852----shipped June 28, 1902
.22 caliber 8" 1st Model Single Shot #23001---shipped March 9, 1905
.22 caliber 10" 1st Model Single Shot #17958----shipped February 1, 1900
Ralph Tremaine
Model of 1891 Target Revolver #22530----shipped June 7, 1910
.32 caliber 8" 1st Model Single Shot #14272----shipped October 5, 1895
.22 caliber 6" 1st Model Single Shot #19852----shipped June 28, 1902
.22 caliber 8" 1st Model Single Shot #23001---shipped March 9, 1905
.22 caliber 10" 1st Model Single Shot #17958----shipped February 1, 1900
Ralph Tremaine
1891
Thank you for the info.
I really wanted to know if it was pre 1899
The cyl. does not match and the barrel and latch are matched but obviously much later prod.
It is missing the correct lower grip screw
I will keep you offer in mind
Mike
P.S. I looked it up in the Neal & Jinks book and it was originally a 38 cal SS.
Thank you for the info.
I really wanted to know if it was pre 1899
The cyl. does not match and the barrel and latch are matched but obviously much later prod.
It is missing the correct lower grip screw
I will keep you offer in mind
Mike
P.S. I looked it up in the Neal & Jinks book and it was originally a 38 cal SS.
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rct269
Member
It occurs to me I have a copy of the shipping records (one page, 100 serial numbers, running from 14201 to 14300). Most are identified as .22 Single Shots, a good number are .32 Single Shots, and 13 are simply identified as "H & G"---a curse I refer to as "Shipping Clerk Shorthand"---which translates as "I know what it means, and nobody else needs to know; so go pound sand down a rat hole!" In the for what it's worth category, H & G shows up elsewhere as the recipient of a number of pistols, so it figures they were a distributor.
The shipping dates are all pre-1900----most pre-1895. If any of this provides fodder for some SWAG's as to your desire to know about "pre 1899", tell me your snail mail address, and I'll send off a copy to you.
Ralph Tremaine
The shipping dates are all pre-1900----most pre-1895. If any of this provides fodder for some SWAG's as to your desire to know about "pre 1899", tell me your snail mail address, and I'll send off a copy to you.
Ralph Tremaine
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mmaher94087
Member
Hartly & Graham?
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Hi There,
Schuyler of Schuyler, Hartley and Graham retired in 1876 and
the company was re-named to Hartley and Graham.
Cheers!
Webb
Schuyler of Schuyler, Hartley and Graham retired in 1876 and
the company was re-named to Hartley and Graham.
Cheers!
Webb
rct269
Member
That was my first thought---but only after I saw the H&G elsewhere on the list---and also showing what it was that was shipped to them----rather than a dozen or so entries altogether saying only H&G.
RCT
From my notes in the "book" there were 514 out of 1,000 in the 15,000-16,000 serial number range that were made as SS pistols. The Model of 1891 was made in serial number range 1 - 28,107 and the total number of SS pistols in that serial number range was 1251. In addition, as many as 2,000 of this serial number range were made as spur trigger "Mexican" models.
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rct269
Member
As an aside of no moment whatsoever as respects the "pre 1899" question/concern here, "the book" shows 862 .22 caliber SS's. We of the SS lunatic fringe figure there are perhaps 200-250 more----based solely upon the serial numbers of the guns we had which are above the highest shown in the book (18873)---a not particularly scientific SWAG. My highest, for example, was 23001---shipped in 1905.
We think of all such as this as interesting---fun even---never mind it causes us to tear our hair out!
Ralph Tremaine
We think of all such as this as interesting---fun even---never mind it causes us to tear our hair out!
Ralph Tremaine
Question
Here's one I posted several years ago. I've started to look at it again (contemplating sale) and have come up with a couple more questions re the Factory Letter (See below)
>>Last week I was in our local Cabela’s and they had recently put out what I assumed was the remnants of a collection that had had the better stuff already hi-graded. On display was around 20 or so top-break revolvers of various manufacture, mostly S&W’s. All were in mediocre condition but caught my attention because I am more of a Form & Function type of collector and not very picky about condition as long as the price is right. (These were priced between $50 and $150.) Right in the middle of the shelf was the revolver pictured below. A 4 inch 38 Single Action, 3rd Model…….Target!
I figured that it being right was probably pretty thin, but for $99.99 I couldn’t walk away.
I spent a couple of days cleaning it up as much as possible and checking serials, etc. (I’ve had more pleasure and entertainment for my $100 than any trip to the casino where I would probably come home with nothing.)
Anyway, here we go:
Serial number on front strap = 19056
Serial number on barrel & cylinder = 91227 (Rats!)
However… Serial number on rear target sight = 19056 ! (The mystery deepens.)
No number on the back of the extractor star, which appears to be in the white or plated. (Replacement?)
No number on the stocks.
The barrel’s serial puts it as from a 38 DA 2nd Model, but the barrel patent dates don’t match anything as posted in the Neal and Jinks book. The front sight looks like a standard half moon but with a slightly flattened top.<<
I'm wondering about the bit about the revolver barrel/cylinder. The letter says they are from a 38SA 2nd, but couldn't they be from a 38DA 2nd as well? or even a 38Safety 3rd? The serial number could fall in any of those ranges....
Here's one I posted several years ago. I've started to look at it again (contemplating sale) and have come up with a couple more questions re the Factory Letter (See below)
>>Last week I was in our local Cabela’s and they had recently put out what I assumed was the remnants of a collection that had had the better stuff already hi-graded. On display was around 20 or so top-break revolvers of various manufacture, mostly S&W’s. All were in mediocre condition but caught my attention because I am more of a Form & Function type of collector and not very picky about condition as long as the price is right. (These were priced between $50 and $150.) Right in the middle of the shelf was the revolver pictured below. A 4 inch 38 Single Action, 3rd Model…….Target!
I figured that it being right was probably pretty thin, but for $99.99 I couldn’t walk away.
I spent a couple of days cleaning it up as much as possible and checking serials, etc. (I’ve had more pleasure and entertainment for my $100 than any trip to the casino where I would probably come home with nothing.)
Anyway, here we go:
Serial number on front strap = 19056
Serial number on barrel & cylinder = 91227 (Rats!)
However… Serial number on rear target sight = 19056 ! (The mystery deepens.)
No number on the back of the extractor star, which appears to be in the white or plated. (Replacement?)
No number on the stocks.
The barrel’s serial puts it as from a 38 DA 2nd Model, but the barrel patent dates don’t match anything as posted in the Neal and Jinks book. The front sight looks like a standard half moon but with a slightly flattened top.<<
I'm wondering about the bit about the revolver barrel/cylinder. The letter says they are from a 38SA 2nd, but couldn't they be from a 38DA 2nd as well? or even a 38Safety 3rd? The serial number could fall in any of those ranges....
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rct269
Member
I have no clue as to any of your inquiries----BUT, any top break target (especially any small frame top break target) is good----and some are better than others.
Yours is good! Given the fault of mismatched numbers, it's not going to get any better.
The reason for the mismatched numbers is somewhere along the line someone thought they could make something worthwhile out of a pile of parts-----------and they were right.
Bottom Line: It is what it is.
Don't sweat the small stuff!
Ralph Tremaine
Yours is good! Given the fault of mismatched numbers, it's not going to get any better.
The reason for the mismatched numbers is somewhere along the line someone thought they could make something worthwhile out of a pile of parts-----------and they were right.
Bottom Line: It is what it is.
Don't sweat the small stuff!
Ralph Tremaine
Boulder350
Member
rct269
Member
As for not making it better, I can do a little bit...just a matter of switching sights
That'll sure enough fix things up right now!!
God's in his heaven, and all's right with the world!
Ralph Tremaine
