Model 19-6: Buy or pass?

[olivehead1]

Just looking for a little guidance here. LGS has what I'd consider a 95% (or better?) 19-6 with 4" barrel priced at $795, so we're talking $875 OTD. Bluing excellent, only the slightest hint of edge wear, no freckling or ugly spots (maybe a couple pinprick size spots on the frame, which might be original to the gun, had to really look to find them), original target stocks with maybe a couple light scratches/scuffs. No box or papers (the kind of condition that makes you wonder where those went off to, and where it's been kept for the last 30 or so years to keep so well). $875 is well outside of my sweet spot (tip top $500 OTD for any gun new or used). Let's say I'm not a stranger to the Model 19, but any I have, I paid a good bit less than $875. The LGS owner has dollar signs dancing in his head for the last 6 months, so doubtful I could even get him to knock off $25, even for a 15-year regular customer.

Do I need another, especially at that price? Is $795 getting too close to "collector" piece, i.e., excellent condition gun + original box and papers?

One other question: Would you consider a Model 19-2 or 19-3 with some normal wear and couple-three ugly spots more desirable than a 19-6 as described above? Is an earlier model almost always more desirable even in somewhat lesser condition?

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[CH4]

Yes, if it’s a 2.5” I would consider it; 4 or 6 inch I’d pass.

 

[olivehead1]

Yes, if it’s a 2.5” I would consider it; 4 or 6 inch I’d pass.

Sorry, left that part out. It's a 4"

Original post edited.

 

[sigp220.45]

Wow, that just seems high to me for non P&R 4” gun. I may be out of touch with current prices though.

If I was going to spend 800 bones I’d look for an earlier one.

 

[Rpg]

Non P&R model 19’s, especially those with longer barrels (4”& 6”) are fine shooters but hold little interest for me.

I think the posted price is a good $200 more than I’d have any interest in spending for that gun. A comparable P&R gun would come much closer to the price your LGS wants .

 

[olivehead1]

I think the posted price is a good $200 more than I’d have any interest in spending for that gun. A comparable P&R gun would come much closer to the price your LGS wants .

That's pretty much what I've concluded. I even told the counter jockeys at the shop that it would be a much better gun at $650-ish, to which they agreed, but it's out of their hands. Pre-pandemic I've picked up P&R guns for less than 5 bills OTD. I don't think the pandemic has affected the price of a gun like this, except to the extent that it's made the dealers greedier across the board.

 

[UncleEd]

These questions come up all the time.

If you have doubts and are asking for
advice here, don't buy it.

But if you want it and can afford it,
buy it. And enjoy the heck out it.

 

[olivehead1]

These questions come up all the time.

Yeah, I know. But I trust you guys and you all give good counsel.

I've pretty much talked myself out of it. $795, like the rent, is just too damned high.

 

[Sevens]

I don't think the pandemic has affected the price of a gun like this, except to the extent that it's made the dealers greedier across the board.

Just my opinion but I don’t it is fair to say or believe this without cause. There is not a lot profit in selling guns, especially for any gun shop in town that isn’t massive in size because the distributors don’t feed them tons of guns to sell and the margin on them is tight.

Sure, you’re talking about an older used revolver and not a new gun, but the place is still in business and if you keep an eye on that 19-6, someone will most likely take it at his price.

Should you? Probably not. Would I? Nope, for a number of reasons.

The owner of this place might be greedy but having an item with a price on it doesn’t tell me that. His business is staring down Joe Biden’s double barrel shotgun at the moment.

 

[olivehead1]

Just my opinion but I don’t it is fair to say or believe this without cause...The owner of this place might be greedy but having an item with a price on it doesn’t tell me that. His business is staring down Joe Biden’s double barrel shotgun at the moment.

Fair enough, and on new guns as the dealer cost keeps inching, or rocketing, up, as the case may be, I think you have a point.

But this particular shop, yeah, there's something going on that some might call being "greedy." If you put yourself out there as a high class joint, but are buying guns on the cheap and putting them out for sale at a 100% mark up, yeah, kind of greedy, or whatever you want to call it. That's a pawn shop's business model (and I've gotten better and "fairer" deals from pawn shops than from any LGS). On top of that, take away your employees' standard discount on what amounts to a handful of guns because you want to squeeze out every last penny then, yeah, that rubs me the wrong way. But it is a free market, and nobody has to sell a gun cheap or buy one that's "overpriced." I can see both sides of it. It's also something of a "f*ck you" to the community and folks that made you what you are.

 

[Sevens]

Well, I definitely don’t know the shop, the people, their costs or their tactics, I’ll admit that straight away.

I most definitely must defer to all that you have witnessed in your fifteen years of buying from them.

 

[olivehead1]

I most definitely must defer to all that you have witnessed in your fifteen years of buying from them.

You make yet another good point.

 

[Rpg]

If you put yourself out there as a high class joint, but are buying guns on the cheap and putting them out for sale at a 100% mark up, yeah, kind of greedy, or whatever you want to call it.

The rule of thumb for LGS buying used guns is that they pay 50%-60% of retail value. When they offer such a gun for sale at retail, by definition, they’re offering the gun at a 100% markup from their purchase price. Nothing unusual or “greedy” about that.

Guns are no different than any other collectible or commodity: you make money when you buy, not when you sell. The LGS still has to cover overhead. The LGS just paid too much!

 

[olivehead1]

The rule of thumb for LGS buying used guns is that they pay 50%-60% of retail value. When they offer such a gun for sale at retail, by definition, they’re offering the gun at a 100% markup from their purchase price.

Maybe you and I math differently, but what I mean is that the ask is double the dealer cost. I'm pretty sure he paid about $400 for this gun (I have my ways), and is asking $800. That's pawn shop pricing. Again, from a "high class joint," I'd think more like 33-45%, not 100% markup. So if they've got $400 in the gun, $600 is more than "fair." Yes, I know, one man's "fair"... And something is "worth" what you can get someone else to pay for it.

 

[Sevens]

I'm not sure where "fair" comes in to any of this.

Let's say you come across a Registered Magnum in a pawn shop and they have it tagged at $950. You negotiate them down to $800 OTD. Realistically, this ends up being a $5,000 revolver.

When you list it for sale on the S&W Forum, you are going to sell it for $1,000 so that all is fair and you make a clean two hundred on it?

 

[olivehead1]

I'm not sure where "fair" comes in to any of this.

Let's say you come across a Registered Magnum in a pawn shop and they have it tagged at $950. You negotiate them down to $800 OTD. Realistically, this ends up being a $5,000 revolver.

When you list it for sale on the S&W Forum, you are going to sell it for $1,000 so that all is fair and you make a clean two hundred on it?

That's why I almost always put "fair" in quotes. Unfortunately for that scenario (the one where I make $4,200 off of a pawn shop find), these guys are savvy enough, especially in the age of Gunbroker, etc, where that would almost certainly never happen. But again, I see your point. Hence the quotes.

 

[Sevens]

That has happened to one of our folks recently. RM’s from pawn shops for other guys not as recently. But all kinds of guns are changing hands all the time.

I can’t change the way you see things but I can offer my view from a different angle. Just seems to me like you are going to see an awful lot in our hobby in a very negative light with your approach.

 

[olivehead1]

I can’t change the way you see things but I can offer my view from a different angle. Just seems to me like you are going to see an awful lot in our hobby in a very negative light with your approach.

I think you read me wrong. I don't disagree with you. You make a lot of good points. Given my mood on a given day, I lean more towards your view of things than the other way. All that said, if you (dealer) have more than doubled your take from the previous year and instead of being a bit more, shall we say, "reasonable," you double down on your natural tendencies, and on top of that cut your employees' rather meager discount just because you can, well, IMHO, you're a bit of a dick. But I don't hold that against the vast majority of those with this hobby, who I've generally found to be righteous dudes. Case in point, I decided to thin the herd this past weekend and took a chance on a dealer a bit out of my range but who had a few things posted online that peaked my interest. In the end, I ended up just selling him three guns rather than trade on anything, and we were both satisfied with the deal. I got cash in hand without the hassle of trying to find private buyers, and he got some solid guns he'll turn a profit on. He's already got one up listed at about 50% over what he paid me. Pretty "fair" I'd say. And I assure you his operation, given size and location and clientele, could get away with a 100% mark up, but he chooses to not be a dick. What can I say? As you can see, I have my own "natural tendencies" to contend with as well. Maybe if I was running my own business, I'd have a whole different perspective. But there it is.

 

[Sevens]

Here is another way I’ll put it.

Pawn shop owner needs to be savvy in the age of the internet to protect himself from selling a $5,000 RM at $800. If he isn’t savvy, his loss.

You need to be savvy enough to not pay $8-something for a 19-6. If you aren’t, you’ll learn.

Frankly, pawn shop guy probably pays $300 for the $5,000 RM that he screws up and sells for $800.

But the guy who REALLY needs to wise up is the poor soul who sells anything to a pawn shop. I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that he makes many bad decisions at every opportunity. He may rent to own his furniture. Maybe gets his ride at a buy here/pay here car lot. He isn’t likely to be savvy.

I suspect there isn’t much chance that he’ll learn.

 

[olivehead1]

But the guy who REALLY needs to wise up is the poor soul who sells anything to a pawn shop. I’ll go out on a limb and suggest that he makes many bad decisions at every opportunity. He may rent to own his furniture. Maybe gets his ride at a buy here/pay here car lot. He isn’t likely to be savvy.

I suspect there isn’t much chance that he’ll learn.

I have mixed feelings about pawn shops in general. On the one hand, I've gotten some good deals there, not just on guns, and have met some good people. On the other hand, I recall one time walking into a shop and seeing a young lady from behind who was apparently trying to get $20 for a watch and they'd only give her $15. From my view, I was thinking, this looks like she'd be a young, attractive girl, and I was naturally curious to see what she looked like. When she turned around, well, she had one tooth visible in her mouth, and that one had seen better days. She was probably in her late-20s but fast on her way to looking 50-something. For a split second I thought of just giving her $20 for the watch, but then feared where that $20 might go.

The pawn shop business is not for the squeamish.