Model 19 Carry Comp

[jubela#4]

I recently purchased a model 19 Carry Comp. Good looking revolver and very accurate. However, I have sent it back twice to the factory for the cylinder binding after 100 rounds or so of shooting.
The load I am using is a 158 hard cast SWC bullet and 6 grains of Unique.

Both times the revolver was returned from the factory the info is they cleaned and oiled the yoke and not to grease the yoke and cylinder. Well, I don’t grease the yoke at the cylinder on my S&W revolvers and I clean them with Hoppes #9.

So the question I have is does anyone own a 19 carry comp and shoot lead bullets and Unique powder? If so do you have this same issue?

I have older 19’s, 27’s and 28’s that I shoot this load in with no issues at all and have shot thousands of these rounds in these revolvers.

Any and all replies are welcome.

 

[bronco45]

Sounds like a tight fit between cylinder/forcing cone/yoke. Shoot a cleaner powder or take a brass brush with you to the range. When shooting PPC years ago with a Model 14 always carried a brass brush in hip pocket on range as it would not go 50 rounds of your load without scrubbing cylinder face and forcing cone between relays.

 

[jubela#4]

Thank you Bronco.

I have tried that approach to no avail. I’m thinking the gas ring and close tolerances are in play here. Seems like the way the cylinder attaches to the yoke is much different from older models.

 

[UncleEd]

Switch to jacketed bullets for reloads and go to a
cleaner powder.

Or go factory jacketed.

It is a fine, defensive revolver and not cheap.
Treat it to the finest ammunition.

As accomplished shooters, no need to subject
a revolver to more than 24 or at most 50
rounds in a practice session.

 

[M29since14]

Not surprised. Dirty ammo. I’ve always had the kind of difficulty you describe with my Model 19s. I shoot the ammo anyway. My solution is to carry a small squirt bottle of VERY light oil in my shooting bag. I am talking about something like trumpet valve oil, or nothing heavier than Rem Oil. When the cylinder turns on the yoke barrel with some difficulty, I hold the gun muzzle-up and give it a few drops at the gas ring area, then rotate the cylinder several times to let the oil slip down into the mechanism and free things up. It’s nothing more than just flushing it out a bit when it’s not convenient to clean thoroughly. I do that when I get home.

I’ve been doing this for the last 30+ years (when I started shooting on an indoor range). It’s not a cure; just treats the symptoms. But it works for me. As the gun heats up from use, I suspect some of its operating tolerances may be reduced a bit, too. If that’s the case, it probably compounds the fouling issue.

 

[Pine_Worker]

Switch to jacketed bullets for reloads and go to a
cleaner powder.

Or go factory jacketed.

It is a fine, defensive revolver and not cheap.
Treat it to the finest ammunition.

As accomplished shooters, no need to subject
a revolver to more than 24 or at most 50
rounds in a practice session.

What he said!

 

[SLT223]

I believe this is happening because the new k frames have no real gas bushing. Smith fixed the weak forcing cone be eliminating the flat spot at 6 o’clock. The flat spot provided clearance for a gas bushing. People have reported similar issue with new 66....neither gun has a gas bushing. You can over come this with relative ease, I think, since you are a reloader. May I recommend:

For plinking:
Plated or coated Bullets over Hodgdon Clays (possibly the cleanest powder there is)

For full power 357
Jacketed or coated bullets and use the heavy end or the powder charge range for the propellant you use. Steer clear of 4227.

 

[SixGunSancho]

I've had the identical issue with an early 80's 586. I never trusted that handgun.

When revolvers fail, and they will fail, failures are catastrophic, which means it becomes a throwing weapon.

To many revolver owners, it is heresy to accept that good quality semis are more reliable than revolvers. They will believe in supremacy of revolver reliability until they die. The fact is a double action revolver is more complicated and with more moving parts than a semi.

I do like revolvers. I've just bought another. However, for bipedal self-defense, I'd much prefer a good quality semi than any revolver.

 

[Tom S.]

Unique is a great all-around powder but also one of the dirtiest you can use.

 

[colt_saa]

I have been shooting 2 of the 586 L-Comps since 2000

Basically the 7 shot variation of your Model 19 PC-Comp.

I also have a Model 66 F-Comp, the stainless version of your revolver

All have been shot with Factory ammunition and hand loads, jacketed and cast. I switched away from Unique for my cast hand loads 15 or more years ago. I can achieve similar mid-range handgun performance from 231 which is a much cleaner powder

With Unique, I would often get an unburned flake of powder here or there. When one got under the extractor the cylinder was naturally hard to open. Finding a cleaner powder made life simpler

However I agree with previous posters that point out you might have a revolver with tight tolerances.

A switch to a plated bullet and different powder for a short test period might help you narrow down the issue

 

[Ranger514]

We had similar issues running low cost SWC .38 training ammo through our model 66 and 19s back in the late '80s. An agency bean counter went cheap, and some of us couldn't finish a 60-round qualification practice without cylinders binding with fouling. Good quality ammo makes a huge difference. Regardless, grit and crud buildup from dirty ammo, or a lack of basic maintenance can result in a catastrophic failure in any firearm, regardless of its type of operation. The argument that a revolver or a semi auto is more or less prone to failure is moot. Know your firearm's manual of operation, feed it good ammo, and maintain it properly. Shoot more. Worry less.

 

[bigfatty]

It's tight tolerances, and I think it has something to do with the new locking system on the K frames. I have tighter tolerances on some older K's and some L frames, but never any binding issues. I've only seen it on the new ones that lock against the frame at the front of the cylinder. If that lockup is too tight, there will be problems when the revolver heats up.

I refused a 19 CC because it was so tight I had to pound it with the butt of my palm to open it. I couldn't believe it got out of the PC that way!

 

[SixGunSancho]

We had similar issues running low cost SWC .38 training ammo through our model 66 and 19s back in the late '80s. An agency bean counter went cheap, and some of us couldn't finish a 60-round qualification practice without cylinders binding with fouling. Good quality ammo makes a huge difference. Regardless, grit and crud buildup from dirty ammo, or a lack of basic maintenance can result in a catastrophic failure in any firearm, regardless of its type of operation. The argument that a revolver or a semi auto is more or less prone to failure is moot. Know your firearm's manual of operation, feed it good ammo, and maintain it properly. Shoot more. Worry less.

I ain't so sure. My former agency thoroughly tested an S&W 5904 before purchase. Armorers put 10k factory ammo though a copy w/o cleaning or maintenance. It never failed to fire. It was one of my favorite duty handguns. My favorite duty handgun was a Sig P229. My worst was my 586. I was happy to get rid of it.

 

[Ranger514]

SixGunSancho: I loved my inital 686 and the P229 that replaced it when we converted to semi autos. I was consistant in cleaning both after range use. I carried the P229 for 20 years, and during an advanced firearms training course, our instructors used us as guinea pigs testing some lead free ammo that used a dirty powder. Our Sigs went 5k rounds through the 2-week course without cleaning...or failures. That same P229 experienced a fight-ending broken extractor during range practice a couple of years later. I have also experienced magazine failures from broken base plates hitting concrete floors during emergency reload drills. Besides binding from dirty ammo crud, the only malfunction I ever observed in a revolver was a split forcing cone on a fellow officers older Mod. 19 S&W. If it's mechanical, it can fail.

 

[SixGunSancho]

Hi Ranger 514,

I hope you're enjoying a beautiful Christmas season in Big Sky country.

I bought my 586 during the S&W transition of the early '80's. A British outfit bought it. As politely as possible, S&W's legendary quality control declined. It was sold again, and it's quality control restored. I was unfortunate to have bought my 586 that came from a production run of the British controlled era. That gun did not deserve to wear the S&W emblem.

You are absolutely, 100% right: all mechanical devices can fail due to many reasons. What NASA and law enforcement agencies have in common is prediction of likely failures and eliminate them. A cop's gun has to work as intended 100% of the time.

I've rarely fired my Sig P229 since I've retired. The agency's handgun that I could've used was of good quality. The P229 and the .40 S&W had been around long enough to have established a stellar record. Hence, I bought a P229 in .40 S&W. It was my favorite duty handgun, and I've carried more than a few.

Thank you for your heads up on the broken P229 broken extractor. I like to keep spare parts on hand, but don't ask me why. I will pick up a spare extractor for my P229.

I have to renew my retirement credentials this week. My former agency's armorers are retired cops. I will bring my P229 in and ask them to take a look at it. I will probably qualify with my P239 or my Springfield Armory TRP .45 ACP.

I do have affinity for S&W revolvers. I can remember the Golden Era of S&W when the K-Frame was King of law enforcement revolvers. The Chief Special that matured into the J-Frame Model 36 and the K-Frame were staple cop guns. While not intended to diminish status of Colt Python, many gunsmiths and armorers have told me that the Model 27-2 was the greatest revolver ever manufactured. While it was assuredly opinion, I'm sure that their opinions were based upon facts: materials and quality of craftsmanship.

I have witnessed many revolvers suffer catastrophic failures. But I'm old school. When I got in to the business of catching bad guys, revolvers dominated. I've had two revolvers suffer catastrophic failures. I have direct knowledge of revolver timing failures. The reality is revolver failures represented a tiny percentage of total revolvers in use.

My personal belief is law enforcement officers and people who carry handguns for self-defense should carry handguns that cause them to feel most safe. Complete confidence in a handgun is important. If a cop or Regular Joe feels most safe carrying a Model 19, that's what he should carry.

 

[jubela#4]

Thank you for all the replies. This gun does have much tighter fit than any other S&W revolver I have. I suspected early on that the cast lead bullets and Unique may be the problem.

I guess I can switch powders and bullets and give that a try. Thanks again.

 

[MLberry]

For what it is worth I have a new Model 19 classic. I am shooting Federal .38 Special 130 gr FMJ for practice. In my last range session I went through a box of 50 and had no problems at all even though the cylinder got quite hot. So I have no complaints with factory ammo.