Model 1911A1. What Did I Buy Here?

[Wyatt Burp]

A freind had 100 rounds of full metal jacket .380 ammo, 14 additional rounds of the same, and a box of 20 Win. SXT 380 hollowpoints for $12. When I got them he threw in this hefty fully functional 1911 .45 "toy". I mean you load it with these rounds in what looks like a real Colt clip and when I fired it there was a pop, the slide flew back and cocked the hammer, and smoke was coming out the muzzle. The spring was too weak to eject the case, though. I don't know what "soft air" is but was wondering if that's what this is. I know one thing. When I make 1911 holsters I'll use this as a model as I don't own a real one. BTW. I felt $20 was more appropriate and gave him that instead of the $12. What is this thing?

 

[nawilson]

Well, it isn't an Air Soft gun. Those shoot plastic BBs and have the orange this-is-not-a-gun tip on the muzzle.

It looks like some type of replica. Maybe it was a movie prop? You are out in California.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Japanese blowback cap pistol I'm thinking. If the springs worked right and the caps were new, it should eject the casings. If you look at the ammo for it, can you disassemble it so as to insert the plastic cap (used to be two sizes, 5mm and 7mm).

 

[WC145]

I don't know what it is but it's old and pretty well detailed. I don't know my older 1911s so well but the trigger, MSH, mag release button, thumb safety, etc all look pre-WWII style to me. Pretty damn cool for $8. Wanna sell it? My youngest boy is all about a movie prop Colt SAA we picked up at a gun show last year, he'd pass right out if he saw that 1911!

 

[2152hq]

The 'Model Gun Co' of Japan ('MGC' is sometimes the marking on the replica) used to mfg'r alot of replicas of handguns and even SMG's that fired the special blank.
'Hudson' was another name found on the guns made in Japan at the time

The sub guns fired full auto,,or full & semi in the case of the TSMG replica.

The ones I'm familiar with have a 'firing pin' in the bbl breech. It enters the cartridge from the front/nose when the cartridge is shoved into it by either the closing breech like on the SMG's or the hammer of the other designs. A small pellet fires inside the case, the force of the explosion comes forward out the nose and forces the action back and open.
Supposed to eject the round (w/screw on bullet still attached!) and strip another out of the mag.

Many of the early replics had full markings like their original counterparts. Customs began removing those markings when imported for obvious reasons. The importation stopped altogether in the 80's IIRC.

I think the company came back with a different line of replicas later but I'm not absolutely sure.
The original models were used quite often in theater productions as I understand it. No license required full auto blank SMG..they made a TSMG, MP40, Uzi that I remember.

I believe I have one of the TSMG by Model Gun Co around here somewhere. They even had a drum mag for 30rds(?) too.

Up until a few years ago, you could still find the ammo,and pellets on Ebay,,

 

[Wyatt Burp]

2152hq, I also have this Japanese Thompson that my dad found at a flea market for $15 around 1987. I paid him $15 for it the second he showed it to me. It has a sluggish bolt but has the weight of a real gun but I don't know if it ever fired these "cartridges" that the .45 1911 shoots. The tommy gun is marked "MGC Model Gun Corportion". They look good together. I found a Thompson buttstock at another flea market for $5 but it didn't have any hardware. I should get that stuff and attach it.

 

[2152hq]

....but I don't know if it ever fired these "cartridges" that the .45 1911 shoots. The tommy gun is marked "MGC Model Gun Corportion". ]

Open the bolt, remove the magazine and look into the 'chamber'.
If it is one of the blank firing models, it should have a pin in the center of approx 1/16" dia pointing back out of the chamber.

The bbl is solid from that pin forward. That allowed the 'gun' to be imported as a 'non-firearm"

Sometimes the pin is broken off but you can still see where it was attached in the forward end of the chamber.
Some had an allen screw under the chamber to allow removal or more likely replacement of the pin if needed.

The cartridge is slammed into the pin in the chamber by the closing bolt. The pin entered the hollow nose of the cartridge and hits an internal firing pin in the cartridge which in turn strikes a small pellet of explosive.
Upon ignition, the force of the explosion can only go forward back out through the hollow nose (the back end of the cartidge is a solid piece). The force is trapped by the plugged barrel, so it pushes the cartridge rearward opening the breech bolt and operating the action.

The cartridges are reloadable and the pellets were sold by the 'card' The bullet screwed into the case,,the small internal firing pin is loose to fall free from the cartridge when the 'bullet' is unscrewed.

The standard mag was a 20rd. US GI mags will not fit as issue, but can be modified to fit by altering the attachment slot and slimming the mag rail slightly.
A drum magazine came with the TSMG also. I believe it held 30rds. It had an internal set up nearly the same as the originals and seated into the gun as original from the side.
I have a drum body but no internals with it. Probably didn't work too well!


The TSMG model fires at a faster cycle rate of the real thing, but for theater, screen and plays, it was popular. It was a noise making SMG after all and a Thompson at that.

The recoil spring(s) are quite weak, this to enable the action to work with the blank ammo. But in the case of the TSMG, it does function as the real thing, firing from an open bolt,,and both Full and SemiAuto fire depending on selector position. It does have a Safe position too.

I think I have a pic or 2 of some of the cartridges, componets & packages they came in. If I can find them I'll attach them here.

 

[Wyatt Burp]

Thanks, 2152hq. The bolt was always stuck shut on the Thompson but I'll see if I can bust it loose. That whole shooting you explained is pretty inventive. These guns are dead on perfect replicas of a .45 auto and a Thompson. I wouldn't walk into a 7-11 with one.

 

[Cocked & Locked]

A freind had 100 rounds of full metal jacket .380 ammo, 14 additional rounds of the same, and a box of 20 Win. SXT 380 hollowpoints for $12. When I got them he threw in this hefty fully functional 1911 .45 "toy". I mean you load it with these rounds in what looks like a real Colt clip and when I fired it there was a pop, the slide flew back and cocked the hammer, and smoke was coming out the muzzle.

I'm confused by your post...maybe I need to go to bed. Every time I read it I get that you are loading .380 ammo in it. Are "these rounds" .380's?

confused at 1:33 a.m. in NC

The 1911 looking thing and the "Thompson" are realistic looking for sure.

 

[cowart]

These guns use PFC (Plug Fire Cartridge) ammunition. There are several people who sell the ammunition on Gunbroker. Just run a search on "PFC". These guns are very popular in the UK.

 

[Qball]

And they have a wide variety of realy cool guns.

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