Model 1917 .45 Revolver

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SFlanigan

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I own a S&W Model 1917 .45 revolver that used to be my Grandfather's service revolver. The SN starts with 104xxx.

Are there any recommended websites I could visit that may have a database on these serial numbers? I would like to see exactly how old this firearm is, if possible.

I do still shoot it with .45 ACP's when I shoot my S&W .45 M&P Shield. It's amazing how a weapon of it's age, (speaking of the Model 1917) is still spot-on target and fires so beautifully.

Thanks for any help that can be provided, and if anyone is wondering, NO, I am not interested in selling this gun!
 
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Welcome to the Forum.

Please post pictures and give us what info you would like to share about your grandfather's service-branch of service, years served, etc. It is my understanding that the 1917 revolvers-both Colt and S&W, were issued to artillerymen, National Guardsmen and to soldiers who were not on the front lines.
 
Great revolver

My Model of 1917, 132xxx, dates to late 1918. Yours would probably date to mid- to early 1918. You didn't mention whether or not your grandfather saw action in Europe, but your revolver certainly could be an old warhorse. As H Richard says, it is fun to shoot and just as accurate as my Model 25-2. I use moon clips in both revolvers...2-rd, 3-rd, and 6-rd. You can easily find moonclips for sale online. BTW- most Forum members never encourage the selling of family heirlooms like yours, especially when they have a great history. Enjoy!
 
Most of the S&W M1917s which went to the military were made and shipped in 1918 (as the war ended then, although some deliveries were made in 1919). #169959 is given as being the last of those. Moon clips are not essential, but they facilitate fired case extraction. There are some very good replica M1917 flap holsters available at a reasonable price from several sources.
 
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Muley Gil said:
Welcome to the Forum.

Please post pictures and give us what info you would like to share about your grandfather's service-branch of service, years served, etc. It is my understanding that the 1917 revolvers-both Colt and S&W, were issued to artillerymen, National Guardsmen and to soldiers who were not on the front lines.
Click to expand...

I would imagine it depends on which war. Like for example, in Vietnam, I think some tunnel rats used various revolvers, including the 1917. And I would think they'd be considered "Front Line".

And I do believe I have pictures of soldiers on the front line in WWII with 1917's.

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I'm quite certain that many people that were not supposed to carry a particular firearm while serving in a combat area found a way to get their hands on one. I "relocated" a 1911 and its web belt that was carelessly left dangling over the seatback of a jeep by a shavetail lieutenant. Where I was stationed you couldn't leave a reel to reel tapedeck playing and fall asleep without waking up to no music in your headphones, look down and no tape deck. Same with a fan, fall asleep with a fan running, wake up sweating...no fan. I hated the company area, den of thieves, dope fiends and drunks. The first thing I had ripped off was my camo poncho liner, nobody used them as a poncho liner they had jackets made out of them or used them as a blanket when it got chilly in the rainy season.
 
"I would imagine it depends on which war. Like for example, in Vietnam, I think some tunnel rats used various revolvers, including the 1917. And I would think they'd be considered "Front Line"."

I had a former Marine tunnel rat who worked for me about 25 years ago. He once told me he used a Victory .38 revolver. I suppose those guys used whatever handgun they could get their hands on.
 
SFlanigan said:
I own a S&W Model 1917 .45 revolver that used to be my Grandfather's service revolver. The SN starts with 104xxx.

Are there any recommended websites I could visit that may have a database on these serial numbers? I would like to see exactly how old this firearm is, if possible.

I do still shoot it with .45 ACP's when I shoot my S&W .45 M&P Shield. It's amazing how a weapon of it's age, (speaking of the Model 1917) is still spot-on target and fires so beautifully.

Thanks for any help that can be provided, and if anyone is wondering, NO, I am not interested in selling this gun!
Click to expand...

I'M SO HAPPY TO READ THAT YOU ARE APPRECIATING AND ENJOYING THIS OL' WAR HORSE, JUST AS IT WAS PASSED DOWN TO YOU--WITHOUT ANY THOUGHT OF SELLING IT. YOUR GRANDPA MUST BE VERY HAPPY......
 
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Muley Gil said:
Welcome to the Forum.

Please post pictures and give us what info you would like to share about your grandfather's service-branch of service, years served, etc. It is my understanding that the 1917 revolvers-both Colt and S&W, were issued to artillerymen, National Guardsmen and to soldiers who were not on the front lines.
Click to expand...
Getting back to WWI, it was my impression that the M1917 revolvers, just like the M1917 rifle, were generally issued as a substitute standard. Of course I may be wrong about this.

Someone once said on this forum that they were also known to have been issued to US WWI fighter pilots. I don't have any references so I hope someone else can speak up.
 
Both the 1917 revolvers and 1917 Enfield rifles saw considerable front-line use during WWI. There were never enough Colt M1911s and Springfield '03s for everyone. Harry Truman was an artillery captain during WWI and he carried a M1917 revolver. I don't remember if it was a Colt or a S&W. I once had a journal hand-written by a WWI foot soldier who had seen combat, and he referred several times to carrying a revolver, although he was not specific about what kind. A very detailed and lengthy journal. He had done occupation duty in Germany for awhile after the Armistice and wasn't shipped back to the USA until late 1919. There were some interesting stories in the journal about that. I later found the soldier's grandson and gave the journal and some letters to him. He told me about what his grandfather did after he returned from the war - he became a veterinarian and helped found the Texas A&M Vet College.
 
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In the book "With the Old Breed" with E.B.Sledge. He carried a 1917. But in this case his Dad gave it to him before he went. His Dad was a doctor in WWI. E.B. Sledge was in the 1st Marine Division, I think it was. And was in Pelielu and Guadalcanal. And Okinawa. He was definitely on the front lines.

Not really an "as issued" item in this case, of course, but nevertheless carried and used.

If you've never read the book, I recommend it. [ame]https://www.amazon.com/Old-Breed-At-Peleliu-Okinawa-ebook/dp/B000VMFDW2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1532367637&sr=8-1&keywords=with+the+old+breed[/ame]

It is one of the books the Miniseries "The Pacific" is based on. Along with "Helmet For My Pillow" by Robert Leckie.

The miniseries is also very good.

The thing is, all kinds of weird stuff happens in war. And handguns are one of them items that gets convoluted as to who carried what. But there is no doubt in my mind that 1917's were used by combat people. Sure, 1911's were probably the majority. But keeping up with the demand of all the troops in WWII was not an easy task. And you have a lot of anomolies out there having to do with command too.

In my Grandfathers division, 2nd Infantry, the info I had studied was the General that commanded the division was old skool and kept them using 03's long after they could have had Garands because he thought they were better. And they only got Garands once they were in Europe, after that General was replaced. I do believe I got confirmation of this from some of the guys that were in the division in a forum I used to follow about 15 years ago.

Anyways... point being, what you see in the movies and what was typically, was not what happened everywhere. I've perused a LOT of picture books of WWII and there are definitely a variety of weapons used in combat. But yes, some were more rare than others.
 
Interesting information from DWalt. I used to have a "Guns of the Presidents" NRA calendar that showed two WWI handguns Truman owned. One was an M1917 (can't remember if Colt or S&W) and the other an M1911. Truman had made a single box for both of them. Of course, I don't know if he acquired one or both during or after the war. Being in artillery, if he was armed with an M1917, this supports Muley Gil's point.

Again I have no reference, but I believe that a lot of doughboys actually preferred the M1917 revolvers, since most of them (at least the new recruits) would no doubt have had more experience with revolvers, if they had any handgun experience at all.

About the M1917 rifles ... I have read they actually outnumbered M1903s as issued to the troops. It has even been suggested that Sgt. York was armed with an M1917 rifle, but that can be a subject of hot debate so no need to go there. We are talking about revolvers. :)
 
Jack Flash said:
Getting back to WWI, it was my impression that the M1917 revolvers, just like the M1917 rifle, were generally issued as a substitute standard. Of course I may be wrong about this.

Someone once said on this forum that they were also known to have been issued to US WWI fighter pilots. I don't have any references so I hope someone else can speak up.
Click to expand...

I don't think officers, inc. pilots, were issued pistols. Sidearms were private property of officers until much later.

Or, so I was told by an elderly former officer who fought in that war. Swords were also purchased. Same as in the British Army, until the 1920 gun law.

My informant carried a Colt 1911 for which he was billed.

The tunnel rat above told a reporter that it was his own M-1917, probably not authorized, but he had it!

Bill Jordan told me that he carried a M-1917 S&W .45 and a Winchester M-12 shotgun when leading Marines in the Pacific, against Japan. Those mirrored what he'd used in the USBP, and he preferred revolvers.

Jeff Cooper began the war with a stag-handled Colt SAA .45, with which he killed a Japanese. But he soon switched to his personal Colt Govt. Model .45, as a more practical sidearm.

Cooper told me that he intended to shoot the Japanese twice, but the first .45 Colt bullet flipped him violently backward as he topped a fallen log and a second shot wasn't needed.
 
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My mother had a man in to repair her washing machine about 1959. He'd served in M-4 tanks. Said they all had .45 autos and also had German pistols. They were afraid the Germans would kill them if captured, but wanted the 9mm guns. Most also took them home after the war.

The Sherman tanks (Tommy cookers, to the Germans) also had Thompson SMGs and sometimes, crews added captured MP-40's.

They were called Tommy cookers, as they burned easily if hit by the more powerful German tank guns. Tommy, for Thos. Atkins, was a slang term for British soldiers. I don't know if Germans fighting our troops called them Ami or Yank cookers.
 
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Coincidentally, there is an article in the American Rifleman about the M1917 rifle this month. It states that almost 3/4 of the American Doughboys were armed with M1917 rifles. Now back to handguns...
 
Thanks all for the responses and comments.

I have dated my firearm to 1918 per the serial number. Several of you have asked for pictures. Here are two of the weapon and one of my Grandfather taken, I believe, during WWI.
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There was some debate in U. S. Army circles about adopting the M1917 Enfield as the standard postwar rifle as there were more of them made than Springfields and experience showed them be fully suitable for combat use. In fact some felt that they were better than the Springfield as the rear peep sight was mounted on the rear receiver bridge, much closer to the eye, vs. the Springfield's barrel-mounted open sight. I have a ca. 1916 Springfield '03 and I can tell you from personal experience that I really can't hit much using that Springfield rear sight. Part of the problem may be my eyes, but to me the Enfield has far better sights, and I would choose it over the Springfield for that reason alone. I had one of those Enfields also, but a long time ago. Further, the Enfield receiver was somewhat heavier and stronger than the Springfield's. Military Enfield actions were prized by gunsmiths for use in building custom magnum-caliber rifles. Some of the post-WWI Remington bolt action hunting rifles used, basically, the Enfield action. Anyway, it seems that the Army let the rifle decision drop after the war and most of the Enfields went into storage.
 
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SFlanigan said:
I own a S&W Model 1917 .45 revolver that used to be my Grandfather's service revolver. The SN starts with 104xxx.

Are there any recommended websites I could visit that may have a database on these serial numbers? I would like to see exactly how old this firearm is, if possible.

I do still shoot it with .45 ACP's when I shoot my S&W .45 M&P Shield. It's amazing how a weapon of it's age, (speaking of the Model 1917) is still spot-on target and fires so beautifully.

Thanks for any help that can be provided, and if anyone is wondering, NO, I am not interested in selling this gun!
Click to expand...

Your gun most likely shipped in Aug 1918. We'd love to see some pics if possible. Could you PM me the complete serial number for my database?
 
SFlanigan said:
Being new to the group, my last reply included photos but they did not post. What did I do wrong? I thought I posted correctly.
Click to expand...

Click on Reply on any of your posts, then Manage Attachments. A pop-up window will open.

Click on Choose File and select the photo from your computer hard drive, then click Upload. You can attach up to 5 photos. If each photo is not too large you will see a blue hyperlink underneath showing the photo has loaded. Scroll to the bottom and click Close Window, then Submit Reply on your original reply window, and the photo should appear.
 
We sure would love to see your photos. Alan gave good directions, but just to be sure, here is my step-by-step guide:

HOW TO POST PICTURES

Easiest Method:
You can attach them directly as "thumbnails".
Start your new post or reopen an old post
Scroll down till you see the "Attach Files" header
Click on the "Manage Attachments" Button
Browse to wherever you have your pictures (usually on your own hard drive)
Select the picture
Click Upload
Repeat till you upload all you want to.​
 
Did anyone see the article on the 10 mm in the American Rifleman? Amazingly, it mentions that the Danish Sirius Dog Sled Patrol (they cover the uninhabited areas of Greenland where disgruntled polar bears and musk oxen can be encountered) carries a Glock 20 10mm as their sidearm. Their primary arm? Can you believe it, the M1917 rifle in its original chambering!
 
Jack Flash said:
Did anyone see the article on the 10 mm in the American Rifleman? Amazingly, it mentions that the Danish Sirius Dog Sled Patrol (they cover the uninhabited areas of Greenland where disgruntled polar bears and musk oxen can be encountered) carries a Glock 20 10mm as their sidearm. Their primary arm? Can you believe it, the M1917 rifle in its original chambering!
Click to expand...

.303 British?
 
"I don't think officers, inc. pilots, were issued pistols. Sidearms were private property of officers until much later."

I believe that during WW I, handguns were issued to officers. A friend of mine showed me his granddaddy's 1911 Colt. Granddaddy was an Army officer in WW I. He also has the letter where GD bought the 1911 from the Army after the war was over.

Of course, some officers, like George Patton, carried their personal sidearms. I remember reading where he preferred the Single Action Army to his issued 1911 because he had modified the trigger way too light and had the 1911 go off in the holster.
 
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A quote from the American Rifleman article about the 1917 rife in WWI. Sorry for the sidetrack, but it came up, so.....

"As the war progressed, the combined output of Model 1917 rifles produced by the three commercial firms greatly exceeded Springfield Armory's and Rock Island Arsenal's Model 1903 production. It is estimated that about three-quarters of the AEF was armed with Model 1917 rifles at the time of the Armistice. Ordnance Dept. records indicate 1,123,259 Model 1917 rifles had been shipped to France prior to the cessation of hostilities. The vast majority of these rifles were acquired by the U.S. Army, but limited numbers were also procured by the U.S. Navy and U.S. Marine Corps, although the Model 1903 remained the predominant rifle used by the latter two branches of service. The Model 1917 remained in production until mid-1919, by which time a total of 2,422,529 rifles had been manufactured."
 
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