Model 22-4 1917 Classic Reissue

[Bhfromme]

Ok I'll apologize in advance because I'm sure this has been talked about several times here but I can't find a good answer online so hopefully there are 22-4 owners out there that can help me out. And please don't tell us how wonderful moon clips are. I don't like them. Period.

Can the Model 22-4 fire consistently without moon clips?

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

Two words: Auto Rim!

Colt 1917's require the use of clips or Arto Rim cartridges, S&W 1917's had a step in the chamber for the case to headspace on. My 1917 Brazilian Contract and my 625 Series of 1989 both can fire 45 ACP without half or full moon clips. The issue isn't firing, it is extraction. If you use regular ACP without clips, you will need to use a rod or pencil to push them out of the chamber.

I had a WWI Webley that had been milled to use 45 ACP on half-moons. The chambers were so worn inside the brass expanded beyond the ability of the extractor star to remove the spent cases. I changed to 45 AR. of the 6 chambers' 4 extracted AR easily! By two needed driven out with great effort. I wanted a revolver that was good for more than six shots and traded it off.

Ivan

 

[kaaskop49]

I'll prolly start another argument, but yes and no, in my experience. I also own the 22-4 revolver. One chamber is cut a smidge deeper than the other 5 so the round without a clip sinks deeper, the firing pin does not reach it, and the round will not fire. There is another member on this forum who has the exact reasoning for this, hopefully he will chime in.

I have another modern .45ACP revolver, the 625JM, and have no problem firing ACP rounds w/o clips, the chambers being cut to the proper depth.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[Bhfromme]

I have another modern .45ACP revolver, the 625JM, and have no problem firing ACP rounds w/o clips, the chambers being cut to the proper depth.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103[/QUOTE]
Thanks. I also have a 625 mine being the 625-6 and yes it fires all ammo all of the time without moon clips. But before I drop $1200 to $1500 on a Model 22-4 I want to be certain it'll fire without the clips.

 

[rockquarry]

I bought one of these not long after they became available. It works perfectly with Auto Rim brass and no tools are required.

 

[Bhfromme]

Generally can't find .45 Auto Rim ammo. I'm hoping someone with a 22-4 can tell me whether or not it fires with .45 ACP rimless cartridges.

 

[Tex1001]

Mine will FIRE 45ACP just fine. Empties have to be pushed out of the cylinder one at a time with a pencil.
Moon clips are to facilitate extraction of rimless cases.
Note- On the left is the new 22. Right is a modded Brazilian.
ETA: Starline shows 45auto rim brass in stock, if you reload.

 

[Muley Gil]

Two words: Auto Rim!

Colt 1917's require the use of clips or Arto Rim cartridges, S&W 1917's had a step in the chamber for the case to headspace on. My 1917 Brazilian Contract and my 625 Series of 1989 both can fire 45 ACP without half or full moon clips. The issue isn't firing, it is extraction. If you use regular ACP without clips, you will need to use a rod or pencil to push them out of the chamber.

I had a WWI Webley that had been milled to use 45 ACP on half-moons. The chambers were so worn inside the brass expanded beyond the ability of the extractor star to remove the spent cases. I changed to 45 AR. of the 6 chambers' 4 extracted AR easily! By two needed driven out with great effort. I wanted a revolver that was good for more than six shots and traded it off.

Ivan

The early Colt 1917s were built without chambers in the cylinder. I have read that Colt replaced many of these chamberless cylinders. I have examined many Colt 1917s and have yet to find one that lacked chambers in the cylinder.

 

[80sgyrene]

Taking mine out today for the first time. Will let you know what happens.

 

[BigMuddy]

I had a 22-4. If you're looking for a definitive answer to your question the best I can give is "most of the time". I did have occasional mis-fires when not using the clips.

Dan

 

[rockquarry]

I bought a 625 3" thirty or more years ago. I tried firing ACP without the clips. It wasn't 100% reliable, but most rounds fired with the first pull of the trigger. Then I had to deal with picking the empties out. This is more of an "it's possible" stunt than something of practical value.

While I did no formal testing, it seemed that overall accuracy with the non-clipped ammo was at least slightly below the level of clipped ammo. After my experience with the 625, I'll not bother trying this with my Model 22-4. Using Auto Rim brass works fine for me while others may prefer the clips and ACP brass.

 

[BigMuddy]

John Taffin did an article comparing accuracy with clips vs. without and the moon clips won the battle, but only slightly.

Dan

 

[MajorD]

I had a 22-4 thunder ranch for a while. It would definitely shoot just fine without clips and a good shake of the cylinder would usually see 4 of 6 cases fall out, with a little flick of the fingernail in the extractor groove getting the rest.
I hate having guns fussy about ammo, and at the time had both a colt single action army in 45 acp as well as the 22-4. Both had chambers cut a bit different ( the 22-4 was very tight) and I had to separate ammo into lots that would only go in each gun and function. ( the ammo all ran fine in autos, and easily entered my reloading case gauge)
I got tired of sorting ammo and they both went away.
Never much cared for N frames anyway. Tried to like them, but always found I shot K frames better

 

[80sgyrene]

OP, I just got back from my first day out with mine. I used moon clips for most of my shooting but did put 3 cylinders through without. All 18 fired. Not definitive, but a start.

 

[Bhfromme]

Thank you for letting me know.

 

[Kid Shileen]

These really need the moon or 1/2 moon clips.Sorry. Ultimate Arms Gear makes a great demooner. Costs about $8. Very easy to use. If you can use a church key you can use this. Just curious why the dislike for the moons?

 

[rockquarry]

These really need the moon or 1/2 moon clips.Sorry. Ultimate Arms Gear makes a great demooner. Costs about $8. Very easy to use. If you can use a church key you can use this. Just curious why the dislike for the moons?

Not so much a dislike as a choice, but something many enjoy arguing. I've tried both methods and find the Auto Rim brass less bothersome; no tools or gadgetry required. If you want to use the clips, that's okay, too. Both ways work.