Model 25-2 45 ACP - some questions

[cmansguns]

Hello Forum;

I have a Model 25-2 in .45 ACP, it is an "old" gun to my collection, but not shot by me as it has some characteristics that I was never sure about, and never found the time to investigate and ask but this Forum has always come up with the right info at the right time.

I'll hopefully post some pics later this evening, but for now this gun has a four line address on right side, barrel is stamped "45 cal. Model 1955", 6.5 inch pinned barrel, 1/2" wide case hardened grooved trigger and 1/2" wide checkered hammer spur.

Serial number is N24533, and overall is good shooter grade condition with bluing loss at muzzle and a small scratch on the side plate about 1/4" long. Screw heads unmolested and sharp edged including the rear sight adjustment screw.

Questions for experts or owners of this Model:

Mine is deep, high gloss blue like most all of my other S & W's except for my HP Model 28 which is more of a satin blue matte. Other Model 25's on this forum seem to look more the satin blue than the high gloss shiny. Did the 25-2 normally come from the factory in gloss blue?

Another question is about the cylinder. This cylinder is tight, locks up good, no end play, but there is no serial number that I can find. Most of my other many S & W revolvers, including my 1942 Victory, have the serial number. Question: Because this model I assume was meant to utilize moon clips, was the serial number left off or could this be a factory new cylinder (all the bluing, including "normal" wear matches (i.e. barrel, frame, cylinder).

Another question, when I got it was (still is) wearing Hogue Monogrips, so what were the factory stocks? Magna's, Targets, with football, or speedloader cut-outs?

Last question...I don't have any moon clips and have never really looked around (too many other guns to shoot). Can this Model be charged with rimless 230 grain FMJ military ball (same as for my 1911A1's) and properly fire, rotate, and then extract or would one be risking damage?

Many thanks in advance for any opinions or answers. Again pics later this evening or tomorrow when I can get near a half decent camera and some light.

 

[Jack Flash]

That serial number indicates a shipping date of about 1971. A beautiful blue finish is correct. For stocks, I would expect Target Footballs (Target stocks with the extractor cutout).

You can shoot .45 ACP in it without clips. No damage will occur, but the extractor star will not engage the rimless case, so you will have to pick or poke them out. Not a big deal.

 

[cmansguns]

Many Thanks Jack Flash for the very, very, speedy reply. Just exactly the info I was looking for.

I do have an extra set of "football" stocks that I am going to swap out. I also forgot to mention that my 25-2 cylinder is "stepped" in all charge holes, so the only thing I need is presumably a wooden, or plastic dowel in my range bag to "poke-out" spent brass.

I do believe I'll oil up this old gal and run her out to the range next trip and maybe see if she performs a little better than my WWII 1911 A1's (that is...maybe she can hit the barn doors instead of having to shoot at the barn sides with the 1911's)

 

[DocB]

Yeah, 1911's are like that. Fortunately, magazine capacity is low, so you can throw the gun at your target after you've missed it 6 or 7 times. You can buy the moon clips on EBAY cheap all day long. That's where I get mine.

 

[ronnie gore]

25-2

i have several 45 acp revolvers and i have moon clips and half moon clips,but most of the time i don't use them as when you open the cylinder and turn the gun up most of the shells will fall out as 45 acp is not a high pressure load, the ones that don't fall can be flicked out with a finger nail. i also use 45 auto rim cartridges in mine and the extractor works great. i do use the moon clips for a fast reload if needed. you just about need to reload if you use the auto rim shells as factory are not easy to find, i buy new brass and load my own. you will enjoy your gun it is a great gun.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

In my limited experience, the best source for moon clips is Ranch Products POB 145 Malinta OH 43535 ph (313) 277-3118. They have been making them forever, they may still be $.35 each, and they also sell half-moon and third-moon clips, if you are interested.

 

[sodacan]

I don't know when the factory stopped numbering the cylinders to gun, but someone will come along who does. I have a 1956 model 1955 (pre-25) that has all matching numbers, but none of my dash 2 "N" frames have numbered cylinders.

 

[Pisgah]

I sometimes fire my grandfather's issue 1917 without clips. Most of the time empties just fall out if I point the gun up and give it a shake; otherwise, picking them out with a fingernail is always effortless.

 

[jrm53]

My 25-2 w/6.5 barrel and a later one both new came with walnut target grips and not G A grips like the other N frames did. Jeff

 

[Kinman]

.45 Auto Rim Rules in Revolvers, make the switch, never look back. If you really feel the need for a fast reload you can get speed strips that fit comfortably in your pocket compared to a bulky loaded full or half moon clip.

 

[growr]

Nothing faster than a full moon clip in and out of the gun!! I use a 625 in USPSA/ IDPA and ICORE events and LOVE them. No use for Auto Rims either....

Don't understand why people think that they are a pain....I think VERY highly of them.

Now, half moon and 2 rounders are another story.........

Randy

 

[sodacan]

Nothing faster than a full moon clip in and out of the gun!! I use a 625 in USPSA/ IDPA and ICORE events and LOVE them. No use for Auto Rims either....

Don't understand why people think that they are a pain....I think VERY highly of them.

Now, half moon and 2 rounders are another story.........

Randy

Plus one on that. I own five revolvers in 45acp. Full moon clips make for the fastest reload of any revolver. I use a BMT tool for loading and unloading them. Nothing better. Unless you reload, auto rim is way more expensive and hard to find.

 

[sodacan]

.45 Auto Rim Rules in Revolvers, make the switch, never look back. If you really feel the need for a fast reload you can get speed strips that fit comfortably in your pocket compared to a bulky loaded full or half moon clip.

No way a speed strip is faster than a full moon clip. Auto rim is much pricier than 45acp and harder to find, unless you reload, and the ballistics are the same.

 

[kendunlope]

25-2 45colt from garaage sale

I have a 1955-2 It is as new in abeautiful cherry presentation box. In the box isa 45ACPcrane and cyl assy. there is a cutout in the liner for this assy. I forgot to say that the cyl in the gun is 45 colt I have never seen any others like it. a dealer friend looked it up in his huge smith reference book. It stated that some were made withinterchangeable cyls but are very rarely seen. Both cyls fit perfectly. I don't think the 45acp has ever been in gun. It came with with all the tools and books also it had a bag ohalfmoon clipsthat was still sealed. It is beaakutiful dark blue. IT HAS TARGET TRIGGER, HAMMER AND SIGHTS The grips are goncalvo-alves. ItrDED Swiss rifle that the collector wanted. Ioriganally bought the swiss gun for 500.00 from garage sale. theguy haad the papers with it. I have found no one who will even hazard a gues on sale price.

 

[Jack Flash]

Ken, my wild guess would be $1,500 or more, and maybe a lot more. People really like those dual cylinder versions in the presentation case.

 

[flagman1776]

I bought mine new in 1979. I use moon clips or 45AR for power loads... target loads either drop out or fingernail.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

I have a 25-2, s/n N404xxx, circa 1976. It has the 6.5" barrel, target trigger, target hammer, target grips. The grips have a shallow "football" on the left side, and no cutout at all on the right side. Finish is a deep polished blue. Hardly any wear. Have to look closely with a magnifying glass to see any holster wear at the muzzle. Low round count. Came in a presentation box.

Bought it for Bullseye competition, but schedule conflicts nixed that. So it's been a safe queen for a long time. Had considered using it for bowling pin matches, but I don't know anyone running them here anymore. Used it in IPSC style matches a couple of times and plinked with it a couple of times. Accuracy is good enough for Bullseye.

Shot a couple of boxes of .45 Auto Rim through it many years ago. They were quite accurate. Then they dried up. Somewhere I still have a couple of speedloaders for .45 Auto Rim.

Also tried some CCI snake shot loads in it. I'll tell you one thing, DON'T. They tied up the cylinder badly. Had a heck of a time opening it up. This spared it from going afield with me in eastern Oregon. Reserved that for guns that could take .38 and .44 shotshells.

Recently bought some A-Zoom .45 ACP snap caps for it. Had to get two packages, because they come 5 to a package. Put them in a full moon clip for dry fire practice. Need to get out and shoot it.

Will have to take some pics, but there is nothing special about it compared to other like-new 25-2's.

Edit: You asked about s/n on the cylinder. Mine lacks that.

 

[cmansguns]

Update:

Thanks to ALL who responded to my OP. The answers all jive and told me everything I asked. You just don't get better than that!

Scrounged around last night, found the extra set of Target football stocks...removed the Hogue Monogrips and butt clip, placed the left stock (football).....fit didn't seem correct, right side would connect at backstrap, but cut for trigger guard was totally wrong.

Tried them on my Model 15-3 and they fit perfect. It appears that my "extras" are really for a K frame. The difference is really slight but I am not much good with a Dremel, and an outright disaster with refinishing.....so....I'll be on the lookout for a decent pair of Target Football with medallions and screw for a N frame.

Again........many thanks to all forum members who kicked in on this post. You revived my interest in my old 45 S & W wheel gun that was collecting dust.

 

[series guy]

You have a wonderful model there that is a real pleasure to shoot. I think the bad rap that moonclips get is due to folks going to the range with 2 or 3 clips and no tools for demooning. Purchase at least 20 moonclips and if you want to start small you can modify a piece of 1/2" copper tubing or purchase a small hook type tool to de-moon. Load up the clips before you go to the range. This will make the shooting experience much more fun. De-moon and process your spent brass at home where you can wash up easily.

 

[amazingflapjack]

moon clip pain...

Nothing faster than a full moon clip in and out of the gun!! I use a 625 in USPSA/ IDPA and ICORE events and LOVE them. No use for Auto Rims either....

Don't understand why people think that they are a pain....I think VERY highly of them.

Now, half moon and 2 rounders are another story.........

Randy

All of my moon clip guns, and most other revolvers have had the charge holes chamfered-S&W used to charge $30 for this service-it makes getting a full moon clip in a breeze. I have custom revolvers set up for moon clips that didn't come from the factory that way, it is what makes a good gun grate IMHO.

 

[Jack Flash]

Update:
...
Scrounged around last night, found the extra set of Target football stocks...removed the Hogue Monogrips and butt clip, placed the left stock (football).....fit didn't seem correct, right side would connect at backstrap, but cut for trigger guard was totally wrong.

Tried them on my Model 15-3 and they fit perfect. It appears that my "extras" are really for a K frame. The difference is really slight but I am not much good with a Dremel, and an outright disaster with refinishing.....so....I'll be on the lookout for a decent pair of Target Football with medallions and screw for a N frame....

Please don't even think of taking a Dremel Tool to those stocks!!!!!

You will destroy all value they have, except mainly as something that sorta works and almost fits and that people laugh at!

Much better approach: Sell them in the Forum Classifieds Accessories. Someone will pay handsomely for them then you can buy what you want.

 

[cptdco]

I had my 25-2 out today, mainly because I'm cutting back and it might go. But I was reminded that the beautiful blue has a little nest of scratches on the left side right below the cylinder release from the use of half-moon clips. I used to put a piece of masking tape to protect it. Full moon clips: all the metal is in the center, not on the outside edge.

 

[cmansguns]

Update on the Model 25

Ok.............some pics (lousy quality I know) of my 25 in 45 ACP.

I have just got to get some football Targets or any other "period correct" S & W stocks. The Hogue Monogrip that it came to me with are just too saggy, baggy in feel and appearance. It is like the rubber has lost a lot of its "hardness" or something as when you squeeze for a decent grip it feels like you are touching the frame. They do fit right I think, but anyway...

She is no safe queen, and needs to be exercised now that you guys renewed my interest in big bore six guns.

I just know that I need better grips for the next time I go up against Clint Eastwood (No....not the Dirty Harry role...the Man with No Name roles). I don't mean to mal align the Duke but Clint always got 6 shots out of a six shooter, while the Duke could go for 12, 14 or more all the while at full gallop on his horse while never reloading.

The inside pic of my extra football targets that turned out to fit K frame but not this N have just 3 numbers 357 on the right panel. Any ideas? Date code? I don't think it is for 357 Magnum but maybe one of you knows.

 

[StakeOut]

At one time S&W put catalog numbers on the inside of both the right and left grip so your grips with the football cutout and black washers could have those numbers.

Inside a set of walnut black washer non diamond K Frame Targets w/football cutout I own they are stamped KT-WAL with RH-5214 under that on the right side half and KT-WAL with LH-5210 on the left side half.

 

[series guy]

Your grip problem could be due to the fact that your Hogues look like they too are for a K Frame gun. There are tons of grip choices on eBay.

 

[flintsghost]

When you buy full moon clips be sure and get some sort of a demooning tool. The clips are a major pain in the *** to get the brass out of if no tool is on hand. Also, 45 Auto Rimmed brass can be had that can be used without moon clips. The auto rimmed option is not always a real good one as the brass doesn't stand the same pressure loads that 45ACP does. When using Auto Rimmed, I found that my ACP loads take a few less tenths of a grain to extract easily than the ACP did. My ACP loads didn't give me any problem in full moon clips. Also that same ACP load has been a favorite since the early 70's and has never given any problems in my Colts or in my military 1911A1's.

 

[1955joe]

Ok.............some pics (lousy quality I know) of my 25 in 45 ACP.

I have just got to get some football Targets or any other "period correct" S & W stocks. The Hogue Monogrip that it came to me with are just too saggy, baggy in feel and appearance. It is like the rubber has lost a lot of its "hardness" or something as when you squeeze for a decent grip it feels like you are touching the frame. They do fit right I think, but anyway...

She is no safe queen, and needs to be exercised now that you guys renewed my interest in big bore six guns.

I just know that I need better grips for the next time I go up against Clint Eastwood (No....not the Dirty Harry role...the Man with No Name roles). I don't mean to mal align the Duke but Clint always got 6 shots out of a six shooter, while the Duke could go for 12, 14 or more all the while at full gallop on his horse while never reloading.

The inside pic of my extra football targets that turned out to fit K frame but not this N have just 3 numbers 357 on the right panel. Any ideas? Date code? I don't think it is for 357 Magnum but maybe one of you knows.

my 25-2 came with the hogue monogrips also but they fit and work well. something musta happened to the rubber

 

[Doug M.]

Also tried some CCI snake shot loads in it. I'll tell you one thing, DON'T. They tied up the cylinder badly. Had a heck of a time opening it up. This spared it from going afield with me in eastern Oregon. Reserved that for guns that could take .38 and .44 shotshells.

*
I believe that if you check, CCI is very clear that the 45ACP shot shells should not be used in revolvers; only in auth pistols. One of the writers at American Handgunner (Due?) wrote in an article a few years ago of trying them in a revolver out of curiosity and having the same miserable experience you did.

If I expect to need shot shells, I take a .44 Magnum.

 

[cmansguns]

Update to the update - my M25-2 now looking correct

Hello forum;

Thanks to above posters like series guy, I located some original Target football stocks (E-Bay) from a respected seller, they arrived today and couldn't be improved on in any way. Perfect N Frame fit, no scratches, chips, wear...good lookin all around, and the icing on the cake...the digits stamped (not inked) in the right panel are just 6 digits higher than my serial number. I have no clue if the 2 digits really represent a serial number but they sure aren't like any inked catalog number I've seen so far.

Anyway.....compare my above post 23 original pics with the saggy baggy, ill fitting Hogue Monogrip that this gun came to me with (also very gummy & dirty) with the pics below.

So now that I have a 4T Model 25-2, next is a decent range report when I can get her out.

Regarding moonclips I heard about a hard plastic full 6 round moonclip that might save some scratches and bluing and supposedly no moon/de-moon tools needed. They are called I think Rims or something like that from a California place Beckham Design.

Anybody have any experience with these plastic ones for use in my older (circa 1971) Model 25?

Thanks for all the tips and advice....I am looking forward to enjoying a return to "big-bore" paper punching!

 

[1955joe]

I've heard the plastic clips work well, but full moon clips don't scratch....it's the small clips. you'll love shooting it...recoil is absorbed by gun weight...mine is more accurate with SWC