Model 29-10 Classic Hot Factory Loads

[KEP23]

First time revolver owner with a couple questions. Just went to the range with my new 29-10 and had a great time shooting (hand is a little tender today). I started with .44 special (cleaned the cylinders before proceeding with magnum rounds) and moved to some mid range Magtech SJSP 240grain 1180fps. Those were a lot of fun. I then loaded a cylinder of Underwood Extreme Penetrator 220grain 1530fps and they shot really well, but would not eject. Took considerable effort to get them out. I did shoot more Magtechs afterwards and they came out just fine. Today I took some calipers to the Underwood casings and there was about .007" bulge approximately .200" from the primer end of the casing, and the primers were pretty flattened. Is this an issue with my cylinders? Is this an issue with the Underwood ammo?
Also, when cleaning, I noticed that the cylinder tapers are extremely well defined on my revolvers cylinder bores. Looks like some tooling marks. It's uniform on all 6 chambers. I was just wondering if that typical or, again, I might have some QC issues with my cylinder. Thank's all.

 

[Invictus357]

First time revolver owner with a couple questions. Just went to the range with my new 29-10 and had a great time shooting (hand is a little tender today). I started with .44 special (cleaned the cylinders before proceeding with magnum rounds) and moved to some mid range Magtech SJSP 240grain 1180fps. Those were a lot of fun. I then loaded a cylinder of Underwood Extreme Penetrator 220grain 1530fps and they shot really well, but would not eject. Took considerable effort to get them out. I did shoot more Magtechs afterwards and they came out just fine. Today I took some calipers to the Underwood casings and there was about .007" bulge approximately .200" from the primer end of the casing, and the primers were pretty flattened. Is this an issue with my cylinders? Is this an issue with the Underwood ammo?
Also, when cleaning, I noticed that the cylinder tapers are extremely well defined on my revolvers cylinder bores. Looks like some tooling marks. It's uniform on all 6 chambers. I was just wondering if that typical or, again, I might have some QC issues with my cylinder. Thank's all.

Welcome to the forum.

Tooling marks in the charge holes?

Looks like a ring in each one?

Completely normal.

 

[KEP23]

Yes.
Yes.
And thank you.

 

[Pine_Worker]

Flattened primers, sounds like a problem.

 

[Hair Trigger]

I then loaded a cylinder of Underwood Extreme Penetrator 220grain 1530fps and they shot really well, but would not eject. Took considerable effort to get them out. I did shoot more Magtechs afterwards and they came out just fine. Today I took some calipers to the Underwood casings and there was about .007" bulge approximately .200" from the primer end of the casing, and the primers were pretty flattened. Is this an issue with my cylinders? Is this an issue with the Underwood ammo?

Sounds to me like some really hot ammo. Flattened primers are a sign of extreme pressure. What happens is, when the powder ignites, the internal pressure developed in the case tries to push the primer out of the pocket. This is impossible because the case head is also being pushed hard against the breech face. Instead of pushing out of the case, the primer gets flattened against the breech face. What did the firing pin strikes look like? If they were cratered (primer pushed up around the firing pin indentation), you definitely have a pressure issue. No fault of the gun, and the fact the .44 Special loads and lower powered magnums did just fine indicates it is the Underwood ammo. The cases were hard to remove also due to the pressures inside the case at the moment of firing. 1530 fps for a 220 grain bullet is mighty fast; Hornady doesn't show loads for a 220 grain bullet, but it shows 1450 as a max load velocity for a 225 grain bullet.

Not sure I'd shoot any more of those in your revolver, they'd be better in a carbine or a Thompson Contender

 

[KEP23]

Thank you everyone for the advice. I have contacted Underwood and will see what they have to say. I need some bear defense rounds for this revolver though. Maybe I'll look at what FMJ Magtech has available. Thanks again.

 

[1&done]

Thank you everyone for the advice. I have contacted Underwood and will see what they have to say. I need some bear defense rounds for this revolver though. Maybe I'll look at what FMJ Magtech has available. Thanks again.

Please post any reply from Underwood but understand that flattened primers are not a problem. Yes, they are a sign of high pressure, but companies like Underwood are known for producing hot ammo. That's their jam.

 

[KEP23]

I figure if I actually have to use the bear rounds I wouldn't have time to reload anyways. I will post any reply from them. I don't think they were cratered, just flat. They were definitely hot, but also the tightest group of the day for me (and the most punishing). At the end of the day the .44 mag was not what I was expecting after reading lots of forum comments on recoil management.

 

[Hair Trigger]

At the end of the day the .44 mag was not what I was expecting after reading lots of forum comments on recoil management.

Just what were you expecting? Medium loads in the .44 Magnum are plenty for whatever situation you find yourself in, short of coming across a mad T-Rex. No need to punish yourself, or your gun, shooting the extra-heavy loads. If you need something more than that, find a .454 Casull or .500 Magnum. Then you can really get punished.

 

[cowboy4evr]

KEP23 , I shot my first 44 magnum , well many many yrs ago . It just takes practice and patience to conquer it . Let me try to help you . If you still have the factory grips on it , change them . Those grips are punishing . They are too narrow across the back strap and too wide front to back . Replace them with old style factory target grips . For lack of those , a set of Hogue rubber grips will work . Start out shooting 44 specials . With changing the grips and starting out with the specials is a good place to start . Then find some mid range factory loads in 44 mag . I think either Georgia Arms or maybe LAX Ammo will have a good mid range load . Later you can work up to Federal American Eagle in 44 magnum . Bullets lighter than 240 gr will help with the recoil also . Lastly , relax your arms , bend your elbows slightly and let the recoil come back through your shoulders and your entire body . Don't have your arms like 2 stiff boards out in front of you , " Relax " , don't fight it ! The 44 is / can be a very enjoyable round , esp when you start reloading your own . Good luck , have fun . Regards Paul

 

[KEP23]

I agree with all of that. Definitely wasn't what I expected in a good way, didn't fly out of my hand, no fractured thumb bone, etc. I read a lot of opinions on what bear rounds needed to be, but in the back of my mind was thinking " is a mid range magnum round really going to bounce off a bears skull?". I doubt it. I will definitely be finding a FMJ mid range round that I can shoot accurately and that my revolver likes. Also, the advice about not fighting the gun, I found that to be 100% the way to go. Aim dont flinch and go along for the ride. That made for an enjoyable experience. It seems as though I came to the correct place for asking questions. Appreciate all the info gentleman, will definitely be asking further questions here.

 

[KEP23]

Also agree with the grip suggestions. I have smaller hands for a 6'1" person. Stubby fingers. I put pachmayr presentation grips on first. I like them but the rubber grabs my skin and it adds to the length for my short fingers. The grips that came with the gun lasted 2 shots and came off. I acquired some older wood magna grips and a BK adapter and really like the feel of that combo. It may be less forgiving, but I feel I shot better, and could maintain a more consistent grip with that. Truth be told, I have some Grashorn stags on the way right now. I hate the look of rubber and blue. I love wood grips/stocks. I saw a few photos of 29's with stag grips and hoped I would like the magna's. I will post some photos when they are on.

 

[Hair Trigger]

I read a lot of opinions on what bear rounds needed to be, but in the back of my mind was thinking " is a mid range magnum round really going to bounce off a bears skull?". I doubt it. I will definitely be finding a FMJ mid range round that I can shoot accurately and that my revolver likes. Also, the advice about not fighting the gun, I found that to be 100% the way to go. Aim dont flinch and go along for the ride. That made for an enjoyable experience.

Also agree with the grip suggestions. I have smaller hands for a 6'1" person. Stubby fingers. I put pachmayr presentation grips on first. I like them but the rubber grabs my skin and it adds to the length for my short fingers. The grips that came with the gun lasted 2 shots and came off. I acquired some older wood magna grips and a BK adapter and really like the feel of that combo. It may be less forgiving, but I feel I shot better, and could maintain a more consistent grip with that. Truth be told, I have some Grashorn stags on the way right now. I hate the look of rubber and blue. I love wood grips/stocks. I saw a few photos of 29's with stag grips and hoped I would like the magna's. I will post some photos when they are on.

Certainly, bigger is better when in bear country, but shot placement probably makes more of a difference. One of the guys at my LGS, a former Special Forces guy and very experienced hunter/camper in bear country, prefers a 10mm for carry in those places. That's equivalent to a .357, so if he feels that is adequate, and I trust his judgment based on his experience, a .44 with medium magnum loads should suffice.

It's hard to define how to hang on to one of those big guys when shooting. A relaxed, but firm grip is best; don't try to squeeze the stocks to death, but don't limp-wrist it, either, or you'll damage both your wrist and your face, lol. Just be prepared for the muzzle rise and to get the gun back on target quickly for your next shot. A defensive bear situation is going to be at closer range than you want, and the importance of a second shot can't be overemphasized.

Altamont makes some really nice stocks for the N frame S&W, with finger reliefs and a thinner profile that fits your hand well. They are laminated and come in many styles. I own a Model 57 that I shoot a lot, as well as a M29-2 that I don't shoot (commemorative issue), although I've shot other M29's and know how they feel. The .41 is friendlier for frequent blasting, and still carries a very solid and effective punch. I have two different Altamont stocks for the M57, shown here to illustrate how they look on a big S&W. The M57 is identical to the M29 except for caliber, and that's only 0.02 inches difference. My M29 has presentation smooth stocks, they're too big to be comfortable for me.

 

[joebuck]

There are (were) tons of choices for .44 mag loads for bear to try out. Only catch is with this fake Covid thing it is gonna be a long time till ammo companies can catch up. Look for hard cast loads from Federal or Buffalo Bore to try out. Expensive as hell but good stuff for four legged things. Please let us know the reply from Underwood. I am surprised they would have issues, but they are half the price of many others so maybe that is it. No pics of your gun? Gotta have them.

 

[KEP23]

There are (were) tons of choices for .44 mag loads for bear to try out. Only catch is with this fake Covid thing it is gonna be a long time till ammo companies can catch up. Look for hard cast loads from Federal or Buffalo Bore to try out. Expensive as hell but good stuff for four legged things. Please let us know the reply from Underwood. I am surprised they would have issues, but they are half the price of many others so maybe that is it. No pics of your gun? Gotta have them.

I will post some pics soon. My local SW has had Buffalo Bore stuff in stock lately but that stuff looks heavy and hotter than the Underwood stuff. I'll take a look at Federal also. I did really like the Magtech stuff.

 

[fortyshooter]

Try some of those Underwood 180 gr. XTP rated at 1600 FPS. Recoil not bad and they have some punch! I also shot them out of my Henry .44 Carbine and see 2000 FPS and they just make things disappear!

 

[KEP23]

I'm a little concerned that the Underwood stuff is a little too hot. I didn't think the recoil was too much, I just didn't feel comfortable with the flattened primers and cases that bulged so much I couldn't eject them.

 

[HamHands]

Sounds to me like some really hot ammo. Flattened primers are a sign of extreme pressure. What happens is, when the powder ignites, the internal pressure developed in the case tries to push the primer out of the pocket. This is impossible because the case head is also being pushed hard against the breech face. Instead of pushing out of the case, the primer gets flattened against the breech face. What did the firing pin strikes look like? If they were cratered (primer pushed up around the firing pin indentation), you definitely have a pressure issue. No fault of the gun, and the fact the .44 Special loads and lower powered magnums did just fine indicates it is the Underwood ammo. The cases were hard to remove also due to the pressures inside the case at the moment of firing. 1530 fps for a 220 grain bullet is mighty fast; Hornady doesn't show loads for a 220 grain bullet, but it shows 1450 as a max load velocity for a 225 grain bullet.

Not sure I'd shoot any more of those in your revolver, they'd be better in a carbine or a Thompson Contender

Fantastic explanation for the OP... I use Underwood "A LOT" and have never had a problem with either .38Special, .44Special, .44Magnum, and. 45ACP's and .45Super's... and in some of the utmost "Hot" stuff they make. Do they push the limits in my experience... the answer is no. They DO sometimes get a little close though but rather safe in all modern firearms... I have yet to shoot any of their "Extreme Penetrators" however. I have shot a healthy dose of their .44 "Keith Loads" in 255 grain loaded to a hair under 1,100fps... And I've shot their .44Magnum 305 grain pills loaded to 1,350fps out of a pistol and a good bit greater out of my Ruger M44 Carbine with the 18.5" barrel and all the aforementioned loads showed zero signs of "over-pressure", popped or flattened primers, bulged case head/bodies/mouths, etc... In fact, Underwood's loads are some of the most accurate loads I use across the board in all my serious firearms. Now that I'm reloading and keeping every piece of nickel plated brass... all brass I really examine them for signs of anything mentioned above.

I would contact Underwood, send pics of both the M29-10 and the case heads, body, and pics of the case mouths to Underwood and see what they say because it is soooooooo out of character for their products to act in my experience. See what they say and post back here.

 

[KEP23]

Fantastic explanation for the OP... I use Underwood "A LOT" and have never had a problem with either .38Special, .44Special, .44Magnum, and. 45ACP's and .45Super's... and in some of the utmost "Hot" stuff they make. Do they push the limits in my experience... the answer is no. They DO sometimes get a little close though but rather safe in all modern firearms... I have yet to shoot any of their "Extreme Penetrators" however. I have shot a healthy dose of their .44 "Keith Loads" in 255 grain loaded to a hair under 1,100fps... And I've shot their .44Magnum 305 grain pills loaded to 1,350fps out of a pistol and a good bit greater out of my Ruger M44 Carbine with the 18.5" barrel and all the aforementioned loads showed zero signs of "over-pressure", popped or flattened primers, bulged case head/bodies/mouths, etc... In fact, Underwood's loads are some of the most accurate loads I use across the board in all my serious firearms. Now that I'm reloading and keeping every piece of nickel plated brass... all brass I really examine them for signs of anything mentioned above.

I would contact Underwood, send pics of both the M29-10 and the case heads, body, and pics of the case mouths to Underwood and see what they say because it is soooooooo out of character for their products to act in my experience. See what they say and post back here.

Agreed. I did contact them and am waiting for a reply. I se that you have shot a lot of the 1,100ish fps stuff. This was 1,530fps ammo. Could be the difference. I did notice that the case length was almost at the max recommended. I measured it at 1.273 I think the max is 1.275. I think those are the right numbers. I'm loving this forum. Lots of helpful, knowledgeable people.

 

[KEP23]

Trying to attach a picture.