Model 29-10 Classics - Why are they hated so much?

[Chris L.]

Are the new Smiths bad? I don't know... but they sure are a hell of a lot better then the revolvers Colt isn't making.

I think the biggest deal about the hole on the Smiths is more where it's located rather then any malfunctioning concerns. My Ruger LCR has the same lock hidden under the handle, and nobody seems to be complain about it. I didn't even know it had the lock until after I bought it. Likewise, the Taurus' locks are placed in a much less conspicuous area on their guns.

True, I wouldn't want the lock on an aluminum J-Frame carry gun (and my 642 doesn't have one ), but on the larger steel revolvers it should be a non issue, other then aesthetically speaking. One is probably far more likely to have an FTF or FTE with a semi-auto during a critical moment then ever to have one of these revolver locks accidentally engage.

Still, if I had a choice I would rather have no locks, as I feel it should be up to me if I need to have a safety put on it, and not up to those who THINK they know what's best for me. In which in case I would just go out and buy an external trigger lock.

 

[nipster]

I just noticed that the 29-10 is being built as a 4 screw model. Went to the S&W website to see if the 5th screw is in the front of the trigger guard and can't tell. Anyone having one tell us, 4 screw or 5 screw?
thanks for looking at your gun,
Stu

They are 4 screw, but not in the classic sense. There is no trigger guard screw.

I asked about this some time back and could not get a good answer as to why they are doing this.

Seems if they wanted to really do something "classic", they would eliminate the stupid lock, used forged components, and maybe P&R the guns again.

I think all the current N frame "classics" have the 4 screw.

 

[steamloco76]

Funny all the angled shots people take of their "loved" guns, see post 16, from an angle as to hide the hole. LOL

They reason I chose to post the right side was to show off the classic large S&W logo and upper sideplate screw. The left side has nothing that says S&W.

 

[bsms]

Funny all the angled shots people take of their "loved" guns, see post 16, from an angle as to hide the hole. LOL

Not me...

And a 'holy' 686+

 

[Waveform]

I love my 629 Classic. No issues with the lock and is a pleasure to shoot after putting the Hogue grip on it. Had a problem with the trigger guard barking my knuckle with the factory grip. Great hunting sidearm - usually paired with my Ruger 77/44 rotary mag rifle. Very accurate - more accurate than my skills. I love the older guns and have several true classics (27-2, 29-2, etc.) but this one gets carried in the field and the gets most range time.

Wave

 

[beemerphile]

Remove them, plug the hole, fixed. Sort of...

I've plugged all of mine. My 342PD locked up on me once and the 329PD looked like a likely candidate for it. Since the 342 is my EDC, I didn't want to risk a recurrence at the wrong time. The others I did to eliminate a non-improvement and a reminder of political encroachment on liberty. This matters to some. I didn't want a "Lock hole". Yecch! But I guess that outcome was pretty obviously in the cards with the purchase of S&W by Saf-T-Hammer.

I have never had a firearms performance issue with any of the newer guns unrelated to the lock, and I've got some both way, but I have a marked dis-preference for the saf-t-holy ones.

 

[silentflyer]

I have both lock and pre-lock guns S&W's, no problems with either. Don't own a 29 as such my .44 mags are Dan Wesson's, no problems with them, dead on accurate.

 

[grumpy7159]

Funny all the angled shots people take of their "loved" guns, see post 16, from an angle as to hide the hole. LOL

This is because the lock sticks out like a big pimple on the nose of the prom queen. Even S&W's web site pictures are of the right side of the firearm, hiding the zit.

 

[MAGNUMMASTER]

There is zero difference. Being bothered by a little hole on the side is just a bit OCD. You don't notice it at all hardly on a blued, as you do on a stainless anyway. MIM on the other hand, is just another way of manufacturing a metal part and it has been used for a very long time now and improved to very high quality standards to the point that the parts of most reputable companies, especially that of S&W, a name that has always stood for quality, now match, yes match, forged parts. Forged parts can have imperfections as well and there lies the double edged sword of the human factor. Could MIM parts sometimes be fit and finished better? Yes. That is the only difference.

Again though, S&W always strives to put out a beautiful, and more importantly, strong product and their guns are still the absolute best both yesterday and today. Times have changed though and so has the amount of times guns are used. Now for fun and recreation/competition more than at any other time. You want an old one that doesn't have the modern "Endurance Package" then suit yourself. It's fine if you only plink once in a while with lighter loads and sit it on a shelf to collect, but if you are a regular shooter then you want a newer one. Tighter tolerances, stronger lockup, stronger trigger and hammer pins, stronger heat treatment on the yoke. All of this you get with a newer one.

Sorry but when I am holding something that could explode in my face and blind me or blow my hand into pieces, I don't care to go on hope that a 40 year old gun will hold up to modern ammunition, modern shooting competition or recreational shooting for that matter. This new method of manufacturing MIM parts is here to stay. It is just a new way of getting to the same result.

 

[cowboy4evr]

EDM rifling does NOT eat up lead bullets , that " BS " . I have 3 classics , 2-44's and a 45 Lc . They have all the new mods , the endurance pkg is a great update . I had one of the older 29's , a 29-3 , it spent more time with the gun smith than it did with me . I dumped it at a big loss . My 29-10's have all been great guns . Decide for yourself , which you like the best .

 

[John Rus]

MIM on the other hand, is just another way of manufacturing a metal part and it has been used for a very long time now and improved to very high quality standards to the point that the parts of most reputable companies, especially that of S&W, a name that has always stood for quality, now match, yes match, forged parts. Forged parts can have imperfections as well and there lies the double edged sword of the human factor. Could MIM parts sometimes be fit and finished better? Yes. That is the only difference.

This new method of manufacturing MIM parts is here to stay. It is just a new way of getting to the same result.

Smith still makes some revolvers with forged parts and they don't cost that much more. MIM is cheaper and easier to manufacture but not as strong. Pretty simple I think.

I can't figure out why that is so hard to understand.

 

[revolver686]

Don't we get enough of these posts already? No need to resurrect 7 year old threads.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[muddocktor]

Don't we get enough of these posts already? No need to resurrect 7 year old threads.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Can't agree with you more. This is a thread back from the dead. Maybe a Mod will come along and put it out it's misery.

 

[MAGNUMMASTER]

MIM is cheaper and easier to manufacture but not as strong. Pretty simple I think.

I can't figure out why that is so hard to understand.

That's the very thing I keep asking. MIM is cheaper and easier to manufacture but to say it is not as strong is nonsense. This process has been used so long now, and advanced so far, that the quality is right on par with forged. To say otherwise is simply not accurate. S&W does not put out junk. The company has always stood for quality and they are only following what has become the industry standard of parts manufacturing. It's not the 50s or 60s anymore.

I think this is a thread that is going nowhere. You just can't change some perceptions.
Done with this one. Dead horse.

 

[BruceM]

That's the very thing I keep asking. MIM is cheaper and easier to manufacture but to say it is not as strong is nonsense.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

The problem with MIM hammers & triggers used in S&W revolvers is not how they function but rather that they look like H-E double hockey sticks as compared to their forged CCH predecessors. The savings realized by Smith & Wesson is not in the cost of the component but rather the labor savings because MIM parts are made to such close tolerances that the fitting required is minimal. I don't begrudge the company for the change in manufacturing technology but do for attempting to translate this into a manufacturing philosophy where it is thought that close tolerance CNC machining and MIM equal less final QC and inspection. Too much sloppy product leaves the factory and that includes the Performance Center. They should know that their perceived reputation with the consumer should be base on the quality of the finished product and not that of their warranty & repair department.

The fact is however that I will never own a new Smith & Wesson revolver which has the lock. It is a constant reminder of their capitulation to the Clinton administration and their continued refusal to remove it shows considerable lack of gumption IMO.

Bruce

 

[John Rus]

MIM is cheaper and easier to manufacture but to say it is not as strong is nonsense.

I guess you have never worked in a machine shop have you?

A forged piece of steel is stronger than an un-forged piece. When you compress the steel the molecules are rearranged and produce a steel that is tougher and stronger than it originally was. Smith still use it on some guns and they wouldn't do that if the only difference was price.

John.

 

[J.D.]

I love my 29-10 classic series it is a great shooter, the fit & finish is fantastic plus it never causes me any problems with any of the ammo I feed it...love it & don't know what all the fuss is about with these new revolvers....

 

[BruceM]

I guess you have never worked in a machine shop have you?

Conversely, it looks like you're neither an industrial nor mechanical engineer. I guess we can cross metallurgist off the list also.

All I will say at this point is that there is more to what makes a component suitable for a specific purpose other than if it's forged or MIM manufactured.

Being either a machinist or a tool and die maker does not make you an irrefutable expert on the subject.

Bruce

Bruce

 

[Lou_the_welder]

Conversely, it looks like you're neither an industrial nor mechanical engineer. I guess we can cross metallurgist off the list also.

All I will say at this point is that there is more to what makes a component suitable for a specific purpose other than if it's forged or MIM manufactured.

Being either a machinist or a tool and die maker does not make you an irrefutable expert on the subject.

Bruce

Bruce

My friend. It looks like maybe there may be a more constructive way to go about your day.

MIM was a way an American company had to do to cut costs. To compete. We should all buy American as much as possible. I understand your apprehension to do so.

Let's not bash the brand. In this day and age, so much hate is wrong. Let's accept the lock and move on. Used as a child deterrent/ safety device; this may save at least one life! I can argue that one life saved is worth all this heartache. Life is precious.

Thank you for your understanding. This is all I'll say in this matter. My apologies if I couldn't keep quiet.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[SLT223]

My friend. It looks like maybe there may be a more constructive way to go about your day.

MIM was a way an American company had to do to cut costs. To compete. We should all buy American as much as possible. I understand your apprehension to do so.

Let's not bash the brand. In this day and age, so much hate is wrong. Let's accept the lock and move on. Used as a child deterrent/ safety device; this may save at least one life! I can argue that one life saved is worth all this heartache. Life is precious.

Thank you for your understanding. This is all I'll say in this matter. My apologies if I couldn't keep quiet.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

Take another look at the post you quoted and read Bruce's previous post. He is defending S&W's engineering decisions........