Model 29 cannot handle .44 Mag?

[dla]

At another forum I frequent, a poster made the claim that the Model 29 will develop mechanical issues upon extensive use of .44 mag ammunition. He further stated that .44 Special should be used, and .44 Mag only sparingly, and that the Model 29 issue with .44 Mag ammunition was well known and acknowledged at Smith & Wesson forum.

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I'm looking for feedback... either confirmation that this fellow's claims are true, or any information/evidence to the contrary.

Total BS, spread by forum ninnies who wave their canes and throw their dentures at each other

I'm amazed at the stupidity of forum group-think sometimes.

What you hear is how one-toothed Billy-Bob manages to shoot 454 Casul level loads out of his Ruger SRH. Somehow he has a forum following which convinces noobs that Billy's stupidity is the norm, and S&W revolvers aren't up to the task. Usually some dense-bob will trot out a picture of a 629 destroyed by a double charge, totally off subject, as evidence that S&W Revolvers are "weak".

S&W 44 mag revolvers shoot real 44 mag loads just fine.

 

[ShrinkMD]

Good to hear some more positive feedback. I hope to work my way up to controlling the 19-20 gr 2400 loads well, and shooting them weekly. I guess I'll see how many rounds she can take over the years, and see if my wrist needs servicing before the gun.

If a S&W revolver starts to get creaky with use, does their lifetime warranty cover it? Do they just repair it until its too stretched or whatever and then just send another?

 

[M29since14]

At this medium level of power, do I have any worries for the gun? How about the 19 gr of 2400 loads? I'm hitting the range every weekend and I love my 44 magnum.

You have the same "worries" the owner of any other S&W revolver has. Keep the gun as clean as you can. Hold your amount of really fast double-action shooting to a minimum. Check your weapon frequently for any signs of disrepair, viz. excessive cylinder- and yoke-endshake, timing problems, straight extractor rod, etc. Anyone should do that with any revolver. In other words, just do the normal things.

Others may disagree but I don't consider the 19.0/2400 load a "medium" power 44 Magnum. That is a pretty sturdy load and should approach 1300 FPS in a 6-inch gun. Nothing to sneeze at.

 

[67tempest]

Mod 29 breakage

I have a Mod 29 which I purchased new approximately 30 years ago. I have never fired a factory .44 mag round in this firearm, I have fired thousands of mild handloads thru it. When it was relatively new the rear sight screw sheared off in the frame and the rear sight when flying past my head. I sent it back to S&W and they removed the broken screw and reinstalled the sight and returned it to me n/c. I have had the hand break twice and the last failure was with a piece I believe is called a cylinder lock. It rides in a groove in the frame under the trigger and is retained by the stud on the hand. The part broke in half and locked up the revolver solid. I checked with Numrich and Brownells looking for the part and neither could find any listing of such a part on a model 29. I finally called S&W and the tech I got ahold of new exactly what I was talking about. Apparently it is a part that is not used in all model 29's. He sent me the new lock and a new hand at no charge. Even with the failures I have experienced over the years it is still my favorite revolver.

I have another N frame Model 25 in .45 acp that was purchased new for my father at approximately the same time. It has had exactly 12 rounds put thru it. It's packed away in it's presentation case and I shoot the snot out of the model 29 instead.

 

[team sidewinder]

I have and will only fire 44 mag rounds in my 629-6 5". For me anyway that is the only reason I got a 44 mag in the first place. I don't want be caught with my pants down or less than Garrett Defender 44 mags in my gun if I should run into a bear. My gun may only see 30-40 rounds a year through it and maybe even less some years so I am not going to worry about it being able to handle the ammo I am using in it. The Garrett Defender ammo I am using is within the SAMMI recommended limits.

 

[NE450No2]

Here has been my exoerience with my 4" and 6 1/2" Mod 29-2's I bought in the early 1970's.

They have been used for hunting, plinking, and Duty use.
They have shot a LOT of 44 Mag rounds.

The 4" has been tuned up 3 times, the 6 1/2" twice.

I do not find the Mod 29 to be "fragile" but I do not find it to be a short bar of solid steel.

It is a man made machine, and when its working it is undergoing wear.
The harder it works the more the wear, just like a vehicle, or a knife.
The more you cut with a knife the more it must be sharpened, thus the more wear on the knife.

If you shoot enough 44 Mag ammo to loosen up a Mod 29 consider yourself lucky, you are getting to shoot a bunch...

But just like a vehicle, you do not always need to drive 75MPH, any gun will last longer with lighter loads.

 

[CWH44300]

***,I wonder what they say about the 329's..he..he..

 

[jphendren]

I've had both a 5-screw Pre-29, and a still have a 4-screw Model 29 no dash. Both would unlock and rotate when firing regular Winchester 240gr JHP ammo, or Remington 180gr JPH ammo. The Model 29 handles 9.5gr of Unique with a 250gr Keith very well, and does not unlock, but regular .44 Magnum ammo from Wal-Mart will cause it to unlock every time. I am impressed how accurate this Model 29 is, it can cut clover leafs out of a target at 25 yards, and my friend and I were able to hit one gallon milk jugs with it at 100 yards pretty regularly.

Is it possible to put a strong bolt spring in these older 29's? Would that fix the unlocking problem?

Jared

 

[KJM]

At another forum I frequent, a poster made the claim that the Model 29 will develop mechanical issues upon extensive use of .44 mag ammunition. He further stated that .44 Special should be used, and .44 Mag only sparingly, and that the Model 29 issue with .44 Mag ammunition was well known and acknowledged at Smith & Wesson forum.

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I'm looking for feedback... either confirmation that this fellow's claims are true, or any information/evidence to the contrary.

Whoever told you that.......... watch a video by hickock45 on you tube..he bought his 44 magnum in 1974 and has SEVENTY FIVE THOUSAND rounds thru it.


PS.....sorry he only has SEVENTY THOUSAND thru it ...not 75...

.44 Magnum Model 29 8-inch (Close-up) - YouTube

and just for fun.... 230 yard shots with a 29....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lE6EUCSiJRg

Elmer Keith Tribute: Enjoy if you never saw his vids....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRNDoVjFQJM

 

[snowman]

Count me in as another buckeye who uses ONLY full-power magnum loads in my .44s, who fires over 50 rounds a session without ill effects either on me or the gun. I am another one who, if I wanted to fire Specials, would buy a M24 or M624. I had one experience(with a .357) trying to clean up the extra chamber residue from a previous owner who fired 38 Specials in it, and I will never go through that again(and he even tried to keep it clean).

Use reasonable magnum loads in your .29s and don't worry about it.

Andy

 

[ShrinkMD]

At first I was thinking about getting some 44 Special brass, but now that I'm more proficient with the magnum loads I think I'll save that power level of plinking for my my 625.

70 thousand rounds? Hmm, if I shoot 200 a week and keep at it, that will take seven years.

I'll get back to you on how the gun is holding up. Of course, that means never shooting anything else, so since that isn't going to happen, something tells me it will take many, many years to get up that high.

We'll see.

 

[kvtcomdo]

Opinions are like *&%$)

I am the Knucklehead that the OP was referring to posting on another forum.

Now, the points that I was trying to make. I should also note that I was basing my statement on the assumption that the query was for opinions on a standard production model 29. My normal preference for barrel length in a revolver is 4 inches because I like they way they "handle". Keep that in mind. In hindsight I should have asked about what barrel length was the subject of the query. However, even with a 6 1/2 inch semi lugged barrel the model 29 can be what I find to be a bit brutal with a heavy Magnum.

1) The model 29 and it's siblings are the revolvers most prone to developing End Shake when used with a heavy diet of 44 Magnums. IMO it's a result of the Yoke Tube peening and not a result of the frame stretching. I also stated that it's not a safety issue, simply something that someone using this model with a steady diet of heavy Magnum loads need to be cognizant of and something they need to keep an eye on.

Now I ask you, what model yields the most posts about End Shake on this forum. Number one is the 44 Magnums and number two is probably the 686 due to it's popularity.

2) I've never actually met someone who only shot 44 Magnum loads in their S&W 44 Magnums. Seen lots of claims on the net but apparently they don't live in Ohio or Michigan. In fact I've only seen full house 44 Magnums used for just 20-30 rounds, after that the shooter moved to 44 spl. or equivalent loads in a 44 Magnum case. Since the difference in volume and muzzle flash is quite obvious, it's pretty easy to tell when the shooter has backed off on what he's shooting. BTW, I've also never seen any 460 or 500 Magnum shooter expend more than 10 rounds in one range session, however I expect there are people on the net who claim to shoot 100 rounds or more in one range session.

There are some shooters here who have posted extensive use of 44 Magnums for steel silhouette shooting and I do not doubt them one bit. However, a model 29 with an 8 3/8 inch barrel is considerably heavier than a model 29 with a 4 inch barrel. In fact I expect that the long barreled model 29 would feel a lot like a 4 inch 44 Magnum X frame. It's the mass of that long barrel that made extensive use of 44 Magnums tolerable and your experience isn't quite the same as shooting the 44 Magnum in a shorter barrel.

Finally, when the 44 Magnum and the model 19 were designed the Standard Operating Principle was to use the Magnums for serious work and practice with the Specials. Design decisions made in the 50's that were perfectly reasoned have proven somewhat marginal in light of the way that shooters today operate their guns. Quite simply, IMO the model 29 and it's siblings are great 44 spl. revolvers that can be used on occasion with 44 Magnums. If someone wants to shoot purely 44 Magnums, they need to be aware of it's tendancy to develop End Shake and maintain it properly. If that's done, I see no reason why they won't last well beyond any or our lifetimes.

As for the cylinder unlocking, that issue was well resolved with the Endurance Package and this was carried on with the production models following the development of the Endurance Package. BTW, I expect that problem was most prevalent in the shorter barrel lengths because mass does a lot to tone down recoil reaction forces.

Finally, I've shot just 1 round of 44 Magnum at the urging of a friend. That was enough for me, I don't have any need to beat myself silly and have enough accumulated wrist injuries to know better. However, that 6 1/2 inch model 29 loaded with 44 spl. was a real cupcake to shoot and a real hoot. BTW, that friend also tried to talk me into trying his 4 inch 460, however after feeling the effect of a 44 Magnum in that model 29 those urgings fell on deaf ears.

If you all want to call me a Wimp, go ahead. However, at 56 years old I am directly aware of the result of long term repetive stress injuries to the hand and wrist because I live with the effect every single day. Quite simply, once you pass 50 you learn that some of the things you did in your 20's and 30's while lots of fun extract a price when you get older.

In closing, I'll stand by my opinion, That the model 29 is a great 44 spl. and use of full house Magnums should either be limited or done with the thought that it will increase the maintenance requirement. I also think the 4 and 6 1/2 inch versions are too light for the energy that the 44 Magnum can produce. I'll grant that this is the opinion of someone who does have some wrist injuries, however in another 20 years you may find yourself with those same injuries. BTW, mild Tunnel Carpal, Both Wrists AND arthrytis at the base of the thumb on Each Hand. Personally, if I ever do purchase a model 629, it's going to be treated as a 44 spl..

I certainly acquiesce to your extensive experience in this matter.

Have 3(three). Never shot a special in any; don't go for the super duper heaviest ridiculous loads that the 44 Mag was never designed to be and have NEVER had an issue nor felt I was ill equipped to handle the loads. Much ado about nothin' in my opinion.

Guns are all in excellent condition and prepared for more.

 

[Stainless44]

Just to add to the body of evidence...I have a 29 and a pair of 629s and all I shoot is 44 mag.

I put perhaps 100 rounds through them this weekend. Of all the activities I do (fishing, hiking, skydiving, mountain biking, weight lifting, hunting, fishing, and shooting) I would guess that shooting the 44 mag is the least likely to cause any type of injury to me.

A long day of fishing hurts my hands...but shooting the 44 doesn't.

 

[Skeeziks]

Well sure......... And you know what else I heard??? Extensive driving with your car has been know to wear the tread right off the tires!

 

[SW&Larry]

As a new 29-10 6.5" Nickel owner, I find this thread interesting. I've also read many similar to it elsewhere, as everyone else has.

I have to be honest and say it does leave room for some concern as I tend to go to the range at least twice a week and tend to shoot 100 rounds each visit of each gun I take.

The issue I have is there is considerable talk of Standard loads, Max Loads, Medium Loads, etc... but there is no definition of what these loads actually are. Every now and then there is discussion of powders and bullet weights, but that doesn't help us non-loaders

I use factory ammo only, at least for now.

So, what is a light, medium, heavy load?

This is what I currently have. Please indicate to me what they would be considered:

• MagTech 240gr FMC-Flat (44c) 1178fps/739 ft. lb
• American Eagle 240gr JPH 1230 fps/805 ft. lb
• Buffalo Bore 270gr (4C) 1450 fps/1260 ft. lbs

I suspect that Buffalo Bore is pretty nasty. I only have 40 of them, and purchased them before I knew better. I may shoot one per range visit to use them up

But where do those others fall in line? Are they fine for shooting 50-100 every range visit, once or twice a month, and still expect many years of service?

BTW... Hickok45 has over 70,000 rounds through his 29-2, but I don't know the mixture.

Thanks

BTW... .44 Special is too damn expensive and too hard to find. I just got a case of the American Eagle 240gr Mag's in (1000 rounds) @ .66 a round. I can't shoot my 9mm cheaper than that these days.

 

[M29since14]

The S&W should stand up pretty well to either of the first two loads listed. They are full-charge 44 Magnums, as far as I am concerned, but some might think of them as pretty sturdy mediums. The third one sounds a little rowdy.

 

[LimaCharlie]

I am sixty-six and have arthritis. I have a 4” 29-2, an 8 3/8” 29-2, an 8” Colt Anaconda, a 10 ½” Ruger Super Blackhawk, a 6 ½” Ruger Super Blackhawk, and a 7 ½” Ruger Redhawk. None of them have ever had anything in them except full power factory .44 magnum rounds. If I need more power, I break out the S&W 460XVR. It gets only 460 S&W magnums through it.

 

[SW&Larry]

I am sixty-six and have arthritis. I have a 4” 29-2, an 8 3/8” 29-2, an 8” Colt Anaconda, a 10 ½” Ruger Super Blackhawk, a 6 ½” Ruger Super Blackhawk, and a 7 ½” Ruger Redhawk. None of them have ever had anything in them except full power factory .44 magnum rounds. If I need more power, I break out the S&W 460XVR. It gets only 460 S&W magnums through it.

A 460 is on my bucket list. IMHO, the 460 is a smarter purchase than the 500 due to the Ammo choices it offers with little lost to overall power compared to the 500.

.460 rounds are a LOT cheaper too

 

[BigBill]

Its been said here before my new S&W model 29-10 will take any beating I put it thru with the normal 44mag loads. I shoot the hottest 44mag loads from my ruger super Blackhawk and my ruger redhawks. My new S&W is my baby I like it but I won't hammer it. The balance to weight ratio seems perfect. I hated shooting my redhawk with its 5 1/2" barrel in 44mag with the hotter loads the recoil is massive. I noticed right away with my new S&W model 58 in 41mag with its 4" barrel expecting the worst recoil of all it seemed really much tamer over the 44mag. I love this 58 in 41mag. I will shoot all of them just not the reloaded hotter ammo in all my S&W's.

First do not try this at home "I am a professional"; (kidding, man on fire quote)
In my younger crazy days I loaded a ruger super Blackhawk with probably proof loads spec wise. I had 15" of flame coming out of the barrel and 10" of flame out of both sides of the cylinder. The people next to me at the range left. This super blackhawk ate it all and wanted more. Do not try this at home please. I was young and dumb. Now I like the lower gun powder loads and enjoy the shoot. I did have to retighten up the grip frame screws often too....besafe and load it correctly.
I was loading the 44mag to the 1400 fps specs from the book that was my normal load. .

In my earlier days we didn't have the larger calibers that we have today. I'm 62yo and been interested in a BFR in 444 marlin and 45/70. The newer 500S&W scares me when I see hichcok45 on you tube says it punishes him so he doesn't shoot it that much. I been a 44mag guy ever since my beginning with guns since the early 70's.

 

[kwselke]

As a new 29-10 6.5" Nickel owner, I find this thread interesting. I've also read many similar to it elsewhere, as everyone else has.

I have to be honest and say it does leave room for some concern as I tend to go to the range at least twice a week and tend to shoot 100 rounds each visit of each gun I take.

The issue I have is there is considerable talk of Standard loads, Max Loads, Medium Loads, etc... but there is no definition of what these loads actually are. Every now and then there is discussion of powders and bullet weights, but that doesn't help us non-loaders

I use factory ammo only, at least for now.

So, what is a light, medium, heavy load?

This is what I currently have. Please indicate to me what they would be considered:

• MagTech 240gr FMC-Flat (44c) 1178fps/739 ft. lb
• American Eagle 240gr JPH 1230 fps/805 ft. lb
• Buffalo Bore 270gr (4C) 1450 fps/1260 ft. lbs

I suspect that Buffalo Bore is pretty nasty. I only have 40 of them, and purchased them before I knew better. I may shoot one per range visit to use them up

But where do those others fall in line? Are they fine for shooting 50-100 every range visit, once or twice a month, and still expect many years of service?

BTW... Hickok45 has over 70,000 rounds through his 29-2, but I don't know the mixture.

Thanks

BTW... .44 Special is too damn expensive and too hard to find. I just got a case of the American Eagle 240gr Mag's in (1000 rounds) @ .66 a round. I can't shoot my 9mm cheaper than that these days.

I classify any 240 grain load that goes supersonic (1,150 ft./sec.) as a full power .44 Mag load. That being said, I like to shoot 240 grain jacketed bullets out of my 629-3 at 1,350 ft./sec. The 629-3 and subsequent engineering dash models should have no problem digesting any factory ammo that does not stick out the front of the cylinder. Your Buffalo Bore is safe to shoot in your gun, but is best saved for confrontations with critters that are very scary. If you anticipate such confrontations, think about getting a bigger gun.