Model 36 question

[bubba t]

I got my 36 back in the early 80s. I'm not sure which year. Anyway, I was a want to be gunsmith back then. Shortly after I acquired it, I got a book that described how to slick up the moving parts and lessen the trigger pull. I worked out all the tool marks and proceeded to the trigger pull. I modified the hammer spring as was described in the book.

Then when I started shooting it I noticed an occasional misfire. I blamed it on my reloads not having the primer seated all the way. It would fire on single action all the time, but the misfires happened on double action.

I was shooting it back in the spring and pinpointed the problem to the spring alteration. I went to the S & W site and got the P/N and price of a replacement spring, but diden't order it. Then recently I decided to get it and thought about trying to see if I could find it locally someway. Years ago, around here, you could find parts at gun a show, but not anymore. Everything has changed in my absence.

Last weekend I found a rare gunsmith in my travels. He had 40 years of experience he said. I told him what I did and he told me to get some Wolff springs and I could do what I wanted to do with the trigger pull. I ordered them a week ago today and got them yesterday. I got their multi- pack of the hammer springs and the trigger rebound springs.

I thought I was getting 3 of each, but I got 3 of the hammer spring and 5 of the trigger rebound springs. They are supposed to be a little less than factory strength, factory strength and a stronger than factor strength.

I was thinking of starting with the weakest and see how they work on both factory loads and my reloads. If they perform satisfactorily I'll stop there.

Do any of you have any experience with this? What would you suggest?

 

[ogilvyspecial]

Having "done" about ten J Frames I've found that each
gun is different and dictates what spring weights I use.

On most, but not all, of my carry guns I routinely will run a stock weight, 8.5 lb. Wolff
Mainspring, having found that, for some odd reason, it gives me a slightly lighter trigger
pull over the stock spring, in spite of the fact that they are rated for the same weight

The lowest I've ever been able to go on my Rebound Springs is 14 lbs and still
get a good, strong, trigger reset and that was only on one, model 642. On that
particular model 642 I was able to use the lighter, 8 lb. Mainspring, which also
played a role in my choice of the 14 lb. Rebound Spring, keeping things "balanced."

I've purchased some of the Wolff 16 lb Rebound Springs, which don't come in
the kit, and usually run them, or 15 pounders in my carry guns. I want to
make sure that the trigger stays with me, especially if I ever find myself in a
self defense situation where I might be pullin' the trigger like a madman....

I also use Wilson Springs, which I've found to be equal, in quality, to the Wolff's.

The bottom line for me is not so much a lightweight pull, but a smooth, consistent,
one. On all of the J's I've done, too date, my average trigger pull weight
usually comes in between 10 & 11 lb's when I'm done.

As always, Your Mileage May Vary (YMMV.)

 

[bubba t]

Thanks ogilvyspecial.

I should have figured that being mass produced each one would be different.

I didn't get back yesterday. I got busy and my wife took over the computer with Facebook.

I finally got around to my project last night. I just started with the two weakest springs, the 8# hammer spring and the 11# rebound spring. I haven't yet had a chance to try it because it was dark when I finished. I live in the country and could have walked out the back door and shot anyway, but figured it would wait.

I'll just use the old trial and error method as you have. Once I get it where I want it and I'm 100% sure it will pop a cap when called on, do you have any suggestions on what to do with the left over springs?

The hammer springs will be useless on my K frames and I don't know about the rebound springs.

Thanks again for your response.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

You're welcome bubba.

The rebound springs will also work on K Frames.

I don't know what to tell you about the left-overs. In my case, every time I think I
have a good supply of springs on hand, other guns come along and wipe me out.

A little over a week ago I did a model 438 and thought I was out of
15 & 16 pounders but, luckily, I found a secret stash of three of each.

I always save all of the stock springs in a small bag marked with the model & serial
no. written on it so I can always go back to stock if the need ever arises. Not that it
matters what gun they came out of, technically speaking, I'm just goofy like that.

If you find yourself without what you think will
work for you, shoot me a PM and I'll fix you up.

 

[bubba t]

I got around to testing things out yesterday. I tried all three hammer springs with no change, but I had grabbed a few of my reloads. I'm ashamed to say it, but the only factory rounds I have are the ones I keep in the gun. I think that's compliments of my son.

I could kick my wife for giving him the combination to my gun vault. I raised cane when I found out years ago, but her reasoning was if something happened to us he could get in it. My daughter knew it, but probably had forgotten it. She could care less about what was in the old vault.

Anyway, I went in search of some ammo and had no factory loads. I grabbed the few reloads I used. I'm kind of pointing at them, but I won't know until I secure a fresh box of factory loads. I thought I had some, but apparently not.

It's been a long time since I bought any. I went to the Academy Sports and Outdoors website a while ago, since that would be my most likely place to purchase them. I had a general idea of the current cost, but I wasn't sure. About $21.95 was what I saw. The old box that I had the reloads in still had the price sticker on it. Way back whenever, a box of 158 Grain RN were $6.97. Any of y'all remember that?

That brings up two questions.

Can you shoot a + P in a model 36? I bought very few years ago and shot them out of my model 19.

Now what would y'all consider a good defense round for the old 36? The ones I have now are compliments of my son and they look to be 158 Grain JHPs.

I'll report back after I get the factory loads. Whenever that might be.

 

[CoMF]

First, welcome to the forums.

Can you shoot a + P in a model 36? I bought very few years ago and shot them out of my model 19.

The short answer is: Yes, but not without consequences.

In more detail: Barring any underlying problems like improper heat treatment or stress cracks invisible to the naked eye, shooting a mere cylinder full won't cause your Chief's Special to suffer a catastrophic failure. It will, however, make it go out of time and necessitate a trip to the gunsmith faster, but we're talking round counts in the thousands as opposed to tens or hundreds.

Now what would y'all consider a good defense round for the old 36?

You'll get lots of recommendations on this, but the most well-regarded ones are the Remington LHP 158 gr., Speer Gold Dot 135 gr. and Winchester Ranger/PDX 130 gr. All are +P loadings but there are plenty of standard pressure ones to be had that work equally as well. My advice would be to try them all and see which one shoots the "best" in your particular M36.

For what it's worth, I use Remington LHP +P in my Chief's Special because it's not terribly unmanagable even with the factory stocks and shoots dead on for point-of-aim.

 

[hotrod150]

Some folks (including me) like a 158gr lead SWC-HP -- an old-school load for an old-school gun. Some others like a 148gr lead full wadcutter. Lots of people like the lighter, faster designer rounds: 110-135 grain hollowpoints with fancy names & high prices.
Any of them would probably work just fine.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

For my older guns, including a M36, I use the standard pressure loads offered by
Buffalo Bore for self defense. They have a standard pressure 158 gr. lead semi wadcutter hp.

The only thing that I don't like about how Buffalo Bore does things is that their standard
pressure & +P cases are marked the same. Because of this I use red fingernail polish for +P
& black for std. press. to seal up the primer pockets so I can tell the difference between the two.

 

[M3Stuart]

+1 on what CoMF said! All great advice. My experience with my 36s: I practice with (weakish) reloads and carry the $$$ +P stuff - with just occasional practice with them.

Again; +1 on what HE said!

 

[M29since14]

Do any of you have any experience with this? What would you suggest?

The folks I used to know who had been to the S&W armorer's school always told me the instructors told them not to mess around with J-frames. I guess the theory was(is) that they are killing guns and are not meant to be target pieces, so any potential to sacrifice reliability for a few ounces lighter trigger pull was not a good option. Always made sense to me. If that gun were mine, I would return it to factory spec and use it that way. On the other hand, I know many guys who tuned their K-frames for a good DA trigger and limited themselves to using only Federal ammunition, so I would admit there is probably some room for different opinions.

 

[bubba t]

Thanks guys,

On the +P I never shot them for target practice in my 36. I was just wondering about for the real deal if the need ever arose. All I ever shot were weak factory loads or my weak reloads. In the beginning I just bought the old 158 Gr. RN. I was taught and I guess they still load them, that the RN being a hollow base bullet would expand coming out of the barrel, therefore making a larger entrance wound. I would rather lean toward a hollow point.

On the messing around with the 36 it's too late. I did it back in the early 80s. I was trying to correct a problem, I guessed, my want to be pistol smithing had caused. Two weeks ago I talked to a gunsmith with 40 years under his belt and he was the one that suggested the springs I got. He had a 36 in his shirt pocket with a Browning 9mm as a back up. We talked for an hour and he definitely had a personal defense mindset.

Now as to the S & W folks. I'm sure they didn't recommend messing with the Model 36. I would almost bet the farm on it, but it was from a liability standpoint, not to mention that they would be more or less admitting that their engineers didn't know what they were doing when they designed it.

Any product can be made better in most cases. S&W themselves would not have made the various snub nose 38s. They would have made one of each caliber. Then there is the sale of future products. You don't want to make something that is so good no one needs to buy any of your other or future products. They would not have replaced, so to speak, the Model 19, 66, and whatever other model .357 models as an example. That's just my thoughts, right or wrong.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

This is probably neither here nor there, but for what it's worth, Jerry
Miculek, in his "Trigger Job" DVD, which I highly recommend to anyone
who plans on opening up a S&W sideplate, said something about
rebound springs that is always on my mind when messin' with springs.

He said that one of the strong points on the action of the S&W revolver is
it's heavy rebound spring, which allows for faster, more reliable, shooting.

It's those words that echo in my head when deciding on a rebound spring
weight. When I say echo, I mean that literally, because, even though I now
know my way around inside the side plate, I always pop in the DVD and
have it playing in the background just to keep me on track.

 

[bubba t]

I watched the videos, but didn't see anything I could have done differently. I had put the weakest rebound spring I got in the kit in it and when I dry fire it I can squeeze it off and it works just as well as the factory spring.

I still have to get a grip on the misfires. I put the strongest mainspring in which was 1# stronger than the factory spring, supposedly and no change.

A thought occured to me a while ago and that was the hammer nose. I went and got her and it looks okay.

I broke a hammer nose on my 19 back in the 70s dry firing. That's why the light went off, but apparently the light should have stayed on or vice versa.

I'll get to the bottom of it eventually.

 

[Green Frog]

Just a suggestion here, you might take a look at the channel in the frame (through which the hammer nose reaches the primer.) Is it smooth and burr-free? This could be a possible source of your problem.

Froggie

 

[hotrod150]

The rebound slide spring affects the trigger return. The main spring affects the firing pin hit. Two separate issues. The main spring & rebound spring together affect the trigger pull.
The rebound spring has nothing to do with any misfires. First guess there is too light a mainspring, followed by defective ammo (hard or contaminated primers), followed by something buggered up with the firing pin or a dirty mechanism.
My opinion anyways.