Model 38 Accuracy

[Zocko]

Good Day,

I have a S&W M38 which I really love as a carry gun. It is an older gun with no dashes in the model number. It functions well, but at 15 yards I think I could get a better group with my shotgun.....sigh. Is there anything that can be done to improve the accuracy? I know, I know......I'm not expecting a target gun off a two inch barrel, but a reasonable group would be nice. Are there any gunsmith options or tricks to make it perform better? And yes I replaced the shooter and it didn't help.....much. Thanks in advance!

Zocko

 

[dcopper]

Practice practice practice! Trigger control is the key with snubbies!
Snap caps and dry firing helps a lot!

 

[amd6547]

I also have a Model 38. You don't say what grip you are using. I use the OEM magnas with a Tyler T-grip, and I'm able to to get a good grip on it. Maybe a better grip would help.
At 10yds, I can do a palm sized group shooting 158gm ammo. My club has 10" steel plates at 40yds, and I hit them about half the time, standing, offhand. The misses close around.
What ammo are you using? You could try the light bullet load Hornady came out with. I've been thinking of trying it, just for fun.

 

[gmborkovic]

My God man its a belly gun. That does not mean you carry it near your belly, but the targets belly. Dont put a Yugo in a drag race. Got a 38 in my jacket pocket as we speak.

 

[Arik]

My God man its a belly gun. That does not mean you carry it near your belly, but the targets belly. Dont put a Yugo in a drag race. Got a 38 in my jacket pocket as we speak.

This ^

It's an up close and personal gun. It can be accurate further but with a lot of practice. It can be accurate at 50 yards but again.....a lot of practice. ..a lot.

It's ment for arms length or slightly past

The only real trick is ......practice, practice, practice. .....did I mention practice?

 

[RichCapeCod]

Zocko, the model 38 is inherently far more accurate than you state. So, either there is an issue with the handgun, the ammo or the shooter.

If the barrel of the handgun is badly leaded then it needs to be cleaned, perhaps professionally. Have someone who is knowledgeable in regard such matters inspect the gun for you.

I'm not sure what ammo you are using. Factory ammunition for the .38 Special should group only a few inches at 15 yards from your handgun.

Finally, the elephant in the room. Are you really familiar with proper sight-picture and trigger control? I mean, really familiar? May I suggest, next time at the range, run a "ball and dummy exercise." Put in only two or three live rounds at the same time in your handgun's cylinder. You'll quickly determine whether or not your trigger control is all it should be. If you don't do a ball and dummy course of fire you'll never know that, as the blast and recoil will mask your deficiencies in that area.

Rich

PS
Buy my book; Practical Handgun Training - its' in Amazon


For the record, here is a qualification I fired with a lightweight S&W revolver, model 642. Your handgun is no less accurate:

Night qualification, 5, 10, 15 yards - 158 grain round nose lead

 

[Old cop]

I have a M38 (no dash) flat latch from the early '60s that gets regular range time. I run the target out to 3, 5, 7 and sometimes 10 yards but no further. Anyone who can shoot like the person above has my respect, I could not do it and I qualified for LEOSA w/ this gun shooting a respectable (for me) 85%.

 

[H Richard]

It may not be the gun. 2" barrels take some learning to shoot well, as the sight radius is so short. This was shot off hand at 10 yards.

 

[amd6547]

I firmly reject the notion that a snub revolver is a belly gun and only a belly gun.

 

[RoadVirus]

With snubbies firing in double action I find that putting more finger on the trigger helps a bunch.With darn near every other firearm you use only the tip and squeeze the trigger. Put the first joint past the trigger and use the mid pad to contact the trigger. Practice with snap caps. When you get good at this your performance with all other handguns will improve.

 

[DocB]

I grew up with guns and was wearing a pistol on my belt most of the time by age 14. If it doesn't have a hammer and single-action mode, I don't want it. . .I don't believe in limiting my options. This Model 49 is acceptable for that reason. A few years back 3 wild dogs were trying to kill my wife's cat. I fired 3 times at about 40 feet. They were all running at that point. . .killed 2 of them and missed the third. I figured God wanted the third one to live so I did not fire another round. I was using a Nazi P38 in single action all the way. This M49 would have gotten the job done (just barely). The M38 would not have been up to that task.

 

[Zocko]

M38 Accuracy

OK - I'll try cleaning the crusticles out of the barrel and get some descent ammo. The point of impact vs sights vs the shooter may be part of the issue. I'm not totally comfortable with the sight picture. It seems like I'm having to aim low to get a proper alignment. Worst case is I'll put it on a rest and see what it does. Thanks for all the suggestions!

Zocko

 

[Alk8944]

The short barrels are mechanically just as accurate as longer barrels. The three biggest factors affecting accuracy are:

1) The shorter sight radius demands more attention to sight alignment.

2) Trigger control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the most important factor for accuracy with any firearm!

3) Psychological factors. Most people believe that short barrels are inaccurate and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

One of my most accurate revolvers is a 640-1! It isn't easy, but when I hold up my end of the bargain it will shoot better groups than most of my longer barreled revolvers. I used to shoot clay targets at 100 yards in a quarry, off-hand. Back when my eyes were about 15 years younger I could score ca. 50% hits with this gun.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

Hi Zocko:

Welcome to the Forum. I also have a Model 38 no dash, which is part of my EDC (Every Day Carry) along with a Model 638-1. Part of the accuracy issue with the Model 38 no dash is the incredibly thin front sight. Later versions had the wider front sight blade, and it does make a difference. There are two different things you can do that may help you with the accuracy issue: 1) you can add a wider front sight blade, and 2) you can add a set of laser grips. XS Big Dot sights are made for S&W J-frame revolvers, but they do require permanent changes to your front sight blade. Installation is made by a gunsmith, and they mill your front sight blade to accommodate their front sight blade. I really like the Crimson Trace LG-405 laser grips for all of my Airweight J-frames. As an added bonus, the laser grips are an excellent training training device.

Good luck,

Dave

 

[samwood]

Dave is right on in his observations.

As I got older, I had a problem with the thin front sight that Dave mentioned in the previous post. The visibility problem was accentuated because my M38 was nickled. I finally had to go to a Crimson Trace setup; it was a great improvement.

I finally purchased a 432 and sold the Model 38. I have no problems seeing the front sight; it is thick, black, and has plenty of light on the sides when nestled in the rear notch. I haven't felt the need for the Crimson Trace grips since; but it's nice to have options.

 

[gmborkovic]

Who in the heck uses a front sight on a Mod-38, or similar revolver.
It is a close order gun shot from your mid body to the targets torso.
Any way, you are shooting through your coat pocket. News flash, no collector grade Mod-38s or similar revolvers. To some of us it is nothing more than a B&D drill. Use and feel secure. If the felonn is running, let him run. This snub is for you. But, Im old.

 

[Double-O-Dave]

Who in the heck uses a front sight on a Mod-38, or similar revolver.

I do if circumstances allow. My handgun training came courtesy of my Uncle Sam, and I was always taught front sight focus/trigger press. I've never been in combat, but I've had opportunities where I held someone at gunpoint, and I had so much front sight focus that I could tell you afterwards how many serrations there were on the front sight of the piece. The only handgun in my collection I don't use the front sight on is my Seecamp .32ACP because, there are no sights whatsoever on that particular piece.

Regards,

Dave

 

[mbliss57]

I have a 638 and a 640 and 49 and 38 and 36 and 37. All of them shoot well for me at about 20'. After that my old eyes just can't pickup the sights very well to get the accuracy you see at 30' and 45' as shown above.(Nice targets BTW) I personally don't practice my SD drills out any farther than 20'. I did find that adding a Crimson Trace LG105 to my 638 made it a much better shooter at the longer distances. Which means that my trigger control is fine. Just my sight picture is not due to older eyes. The CT is also helpful for training. It will help you trigger control as you know you are on target using the CT as your eyes/sight. The other thing that can help is a good smooth trigger. I have changed out my springs and polished (not ground) the critical areas of the trigger/ rebound mechanisms. It helps on these heavy trigger DA J frames to not have the 12-15# trigger to try to control. I run my trigger at about 8-9#. I have found the the smoothing out of the trigger is even more helpfull than the lighter springs. You can do it yourself for about $10 or have a gun smith do it for probably about $100. There are some good DVDs or free You Tube videos on how to change springs and how to polish your trigger for a smoother ride. Just make sure it's a reputable person like Jerry Miculek showing how to do the work not some hack.

 

[gmborkovic]

For goodness sake, you have an orientation of where the the end of the muzzle is. The flash and noise was my front sight. You put three in the targets gut, its going down or running away, bleed later. Go the opposite direction at a brisk pace. But, Im old.

 

[rockquarry]

I've been shooting J-frame snubnose .38 Specials since about 1970. I still don't shoot them as well as I would like to, but I've learned a few things along the way...

They are not for beginners or for someone who shoots infrequently.

I used to call them inaccurate when the real problem was my lack of skill.

They require lots of practice to master.

Shooting at short distances (under twenty-five yards) will effectively hide many deficiencies of a shooter. Once one learns to shoot these guns at twenty-five yards, there is little reason to shoot at shorter distances except to familiarize with point of bullet impact up close.

I've tried different stocks and the Tyler T-grip. I shot no better with them than with the standard S&W round butt or square butt stocks.

You don't need +P ammunition for practice or carry use. Recoil and muzzle blast is greater with +P and recovery time is longer from shot-to-shot. Use something you can shoot well. Try several ammos.

I prefer to shoot revolvers with one hand, but I often have to make an exception with snubnose guns. A two-handed hold will usually put 158 grain bullets to point of aim at 25 yards. Lesser bullet weights will probably shoot low.

Unlike larger, heavier revolvers, it's easy to become fatigued shooting these guns. Stop when you get tired.

I've yet to find a J-frame that wouldn't shoot reasonably well, steel or lightweight.

Colt snubnoses are slightly larger, but I find them easier to shoot well than an S&W.

Good luck-