Model 41-1 extras and paperwork

[Aussie Collector]

G'day
Recent addition to my collection is this 41-1. One of the guns on my wanted list for quite some time. Its in very good condition, the box is a bit tattered and it came with one 5 shot mag, false muzzle & barrel weight as in the pictures.
My questions are:
Did the 41-1 come with only one magazine, noticing that this box doesn't have the 2 mag cut-outs seen on most model 41 and 46 boxes of simular type?
Were the false muzzle & barrel weight shipped in the box with the guns, they are in an old brown envelope that matches up with the tape marks seen in the box?
What paper work or other extras would have accompanied the gun from the factory?
Cheers.

 

[eljaydubya]

That Model 41 Sir, is a .22 Cal. Short. I have never seen one in person or on the internet. I believe you have a very rare find. No idea what it is worth but has to be scarce. I believe there is, or was a .22 short magazine for sale on one of the gun auctions recently for a small fortune.

 

[civil1977]

That's a rare find indeed. Nice gun.

 

[TOM BECKWITH]

Very nice very early 41-1. Box is correct and the parts would have been in plastic bag - cleaning pieces and screwdriver, and false muzzle and weight seperately. believe it was one mag, but been so long and I have all 41-1s with 2 mags, so could have come that way???? There would have also been a 4 page foldout that is marked 41-1 along with a warranty card and the regular S&W wax paper. Note the quality of the 41-1 stamping. Some of the very early ones stamped 41 only. The later -1 of the 41-1 was often uneven and sloppy. You might want to note the ejector position relative to your LR.

 

[Aussie Collector]

Thanks guys, as I said I was after one for a very long time and found this one advertised as 41 in 22 short. I purchase it sight unseen hoping for the best even though I was reasonably sure. Mind you it was a long 4 day wait before I seen it to check. It was a happy moment when I rolled it over to see the 41-1 and 22 short ctg stamping.

I have copies of most 4 page foldouts / parts lists and have never seen one for a 41-1. I expected the 41-1 may have come with the 41 paper work, now I know otherwise, thanks Tom. I knew the box is correct as it is printed ".22 short automatic" on the end and the right details under the box matching the gun.
For some reason I thought it was a late gun, just checked and your right, thanks again.
I'll now try to add the cleaning kit and screw driver, something I don't collect normally but will attempt to acquire in this case. The trick being to get the right ones from the early 60s.
I have a few .22s but don't actually have a 41, so not sure what you meant about the extractor.
Cheers.

 

[civil1977]

The ejector on the 41-1 is different than the standard 41.....I think Tom was just pointing this out. The 41-1 ejector is cut differently to eject the shorter .22 Short casing. I have one of these 41-1 ejectors that I picked up in a Model 41 parts lot. I'm hanging on to it incase I find a 41-1 or a .22 Short conversin kit some day.

I believe the parts that are different on the 41-1 / .22 Short conversion kit are:

Barrel - chambered in .22 Short, has recess on underside to prevent use with regular slide

Slide - Aluminum, has corresponding protrusion which fits into recess on .22 Short barrel and prevents use with regular .22 LR barrel

Lighter recoil spring

Magazine - 5 shot only with different internal components

Ejector

 

[Aussie Collector]

Thanks civil1977
I hope you do get a 41-1 one day. I did see 2 on one of the US sites but cannot remember the site.
Up to now I thought the 41s with the .22short conversion kit could be identified as they will still chamber a 22LR?
If the barrel on the conversion kit is .22 short how do you tell a (early)41 with conversion kit from a 41-1?
Cheers.

 

[bigi]

Do 41-1 have a cocking indicator? Thanks

 

[TOM BECKWITH]

bigi - last assembled 41-1s were in the A350000 range and would have CI. A conversion kit can be used up thru the latest frames. Aussie - 41-1 except for a few early ones had the frame marked 41-1. All 22 short bbls were so marked. Although I have never tried it, would guess the 22 short ammo with the correct slide, spring, mag, and slide stop/ejector would function in a LR bbl?

 

[Aussie Collector]

From the "standard catalog of S&W" third edition, "A genuine 41-1 barrel will not chamber a .22 Long Rifle cartridge". This line was not in the first edition. This is why I thought a 41 with the conversion kit will take a .22LR, as it is not a (41-1) .22 short only barrel.

Smith & Wesson are efficient manufacturers, and I wonder why they (if they did) make a different barrel for the conversion kits when the standard 41 barrel will do the job. The only difference between .22LR and .22 short would be the lighter recoil spring and ejector. The mag is debatable, I have fired many shorts in standard mags in single shot rifles. Now if the conversion kits were 41-1 barrels left over after dropping the model then that would make sense.

There must be someone with a conversion kit that can confirm either way if it is .22 short only (ignoring any calibre markings) or will they chamber a .22LR.
Cheers

 

[Mule88]

I have the 22 short conversion kit and the extra bbl is marked .22 short on it.

 

[wlperkins]

Of interest, I acquired a S&W that was said to be a model 41-1. The collector I got the peice from stated this unit was made and shiped to Europe for the USAF competition team and not used. It was shipped back and was unfired at the time. After shooting several rounds through the unit, I placed it is the safe and not touched it since. Now I thought I would sale it; however, I cannot identify what it is. The box is marked 41-1, it's dated 1955, the gun is stamped model 41, the slide is correct for 22 shorts, all the accessories are present and 5-5 round mags were included. The seriel number is 48214. Any guesses?

 

[TOM BECKWITH]

The box date (inside box top) of 1955 is an early is the early standard marking. The first shipped 41s were in 1957. The 48214 SN would have most probably be marked as 41-1 if so shipped. Jinks of S&W can tell the ship date and with a letter requst, confirm which configuration. We can only guess? Is the bottom of the box marked (probably a grease pencil) with the SN? In the great condition described, a letter would add to the value.

 

[Jolly]

This one on GB brought over $4k.

S&W Model 41-1 .22 Short Match Target Pistol & Box : Semi Auto Pistols at GunBroker.com

 

[Aussie Collector]

Thanks I did see that gun.
I think this was a scam or con as the same gun is for sale now here. Same serial, same photo, same details, same price.

S&W Model 41-1 .22 Short Match Target Pistol & Box Smith & Wesson Semi Auto Pistol - BATF C&R OK | Lock, Stock & Barrel Investments
Cheers.

 

[BUFF]

A long time ago, I decided to use my Model 41 to shoot backyard pests. I thought that with .22 Shorts, it might be quiet enough. The pistol would not feed shorts with the standard magazine. I bought a 41-1 Short magazine from S&W. The shorts would feed when the gun was cycled manually, but with the standard springs, there wasn't enough recoil to work the slide.

It was too noisy, in any event. I ended up using .22 Long CB caps in a Ruger 10-22 and that combination sounded like a pellet gun.

Bloodshed, mayhem and then peace and quiet ensued.

What is a nice M-41-1 magazine worth now?

 

[civil1977]

What is a nice M-41-1 magazine worth now?

One sold on eBay for $142 a few weeks ago.

 

[BUFF]

$142!!! Yowza!

 

[n c rod]

I am a first day user. I just purchased the NIB 41-1 on GunBroker, have not received it yet and I know I need more magazines. Any help? I do not know if this is the right place as the system is very complicated for my limited computer skills. Cannot find the place to let users know my wants. I am not helpless generally but I am smart enough to know I need help. n c rod

 

[smithfan4152]

Short Mag

If one sold on e-bay for $141.00 then I missed out, the one I bought last week was $235.00. They sell from $250-$300.00 EA.