I've heard it said many times that only standard velocity ammo should be used in the Model 41. I recently bought a box of 325 Federal "Target Grade Performance" ammo, which the box states moves a 40 gr solid at 1200 fps. Since the model 41 is an all steel gun, and we are only talking .22 rimfire ammo, I wonder if the recommendation for standard velocity ammo is intended for maximum accuracy, or if higher velocity ammo can actually do some damage. I've used some of this ammo and reliability does not seem to be affected.
Model 41- Ammo
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The S&W owner's manual doesn't mention anything about standard versus high velocity ammo.....as far as a warning about high velocity ammunition is concerned. Most forum members recommend CCI standard velocity ammo, because of the quality and accuracy of this brand. There are many other brands that may give you performance equal to or better than the CCI ammo.
I have fired several different brands of ammo in my model 41, and have also chosen the CCI SV ammunition for range use. It seems to be a good balance of consistent performance and is less expensive that some of the other "premier" brands designed for target use, like Eley Tenex or Lapua for instance.
https://www.smith-wesson.com/sites/...S&W_Model_41_Pistol_Manual_07-15-2014 (1).pdf
There are many, many threads on this forum that cover this specific question. You can read extensively after using the "search" function to explore your question or topic.
I have fired several different brands of ammo in my model 41, and have also chosen the CCI SV ammunition for range use. It seems to be a good balance of consistent performance and is less expensive that some of the other "premier" brands designed for target use, like Eley Tenex or Lapua for instance.
https://www.smith-wesson.com/sites/...S&W_Model_41_Pistol_Manual_07-15-2014 (1).pdf
There are many, many threads on this forum that cover this specific question. You can read extensively after using the "search" function to explore your question or topic.
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bob finger
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Standard velocity ammo will Chrony between 1040 and about 1080 fps, less out of a pistol barrel. 1200 fps is significantly more than SV.
Eley Match, Tennex Lapua Center X or Midas and R50 are all SV and match grade rifle ammo. Total overkill in a pistol unless you are the 1 in 10,000 that can shoot well enough to see the difference. SK Standard + runs about $5 a box the above run between $15 and $20 a box. CCI SV runs about $5 a box.
In ANY blowback design like the 41 the less you hammer the gun the longer it will survive.
Will you ruin your pistol tomorrow shooting 1200 fps ammo? Not likely. What will 40 or 50 years of constant use do to it? Me, I have no intention of finding that answer in my pistols.
Your Federal will set you back maybe 10 cents a shot, the good SV maybe 11 cents. Is it worth taking a chance? Not for me it isn't. . bob
Eley Match, Tennex Lapua Center X or Midas and R50 are all SV and match grade rifle ammo. Total overkill in a pistol unless you are the 1 in 10,000 that can shoot well enough to see the difference. SK Standard + runs about $5 a box the above run between $15 and $20 a box. CCI SV runs about $5 a box.
In ANY blowback design like the 41 the less you hammer the gun the longer it will survive.
Will you ruin your pistol tomorrow shooting 1200 fps ammo? Not likely. What will 40 or 50 years of constant use do to it? Me, I have no intention of finding that answer in my pistols.
Your Federal will set you back maybe 10 cents a shot, the good SV maybe 11 cents. Is it worth taking a chance? Not for me it isn't. . bob
Very well stated by the three posters ahead of me as to why we do not recommend ever using HV ammo in our 41's. My gun if it had been fired since new with HV probably would not be worth keeping by now. It was born in 1958 so you can imagine the damage that would have occurred if I had done this or the the previous owner before me also. Mine is still as accurate as the day it was made due to only firing CCI-SV ammo all its life so far.
Leon Narozny
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I am only going to concur with the SV CCI gang. You dont need much to make a hole in a B25, so dont beat you or your gun up. My PPC loads
were around 550 FPS (1.8 Green Dot), if you got at just the right angle
you could see the bullet go downrange. I wince watching guys at
the range with the compact 9's and the full house loads.
I hope I never have to shoot my Ruger L9S with those defensive loads,
probably end up on the next corner.
were around 550 FPS (1.8 Green Dot), if you got at just the right angle
you could see the bullet go downrange. I wince watching guys at
the range with the compact 9's and the full house loads.
I hope I never have to shoot my Ruger L9S with those defensive loads,
probably end up on the next corner.
You can fire the HV ammo all day thru your gun but mine will never see any of it. Thats why its still working just great I feel is the lack of abuse by the HV ammo over the last 59 years. I still hit a dime at 75 feet with it all day with the CCI-SV ammo. I figure the HV would have badly damaged this gun by now if it had been fed a steady diet of it.
Based on what?
FifthWheel
US Veteran
Is Federal Automatch considered HV? I know it says 1200fps but what would that = out of a 5.5" barrel.
Yes, it is HV ammo.
Based on this gun been fired with SV ammo only for 59 years. Thats what and with only one set of springs and one extractor being changed out as well. I am not alone with the view if you read deep enough into this topic as its been discussed here many times before. This is something that 100's of us on here have learned over the years as well.
With model 41's it seems like some are finicky and some are not, mine likes anything that I have tried, both HV and SV but I stick to CCI SV as it is priced well and more than accurate enough for my skill level. Try different ammo in yours and see what it likes but given a choice I would stick to standard velocity for target practice.
leinster lad
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Has anyone actually seen or personally had a Model 41 "beaten" by using HV ammo ??
And the difference between SV @ 1080 fps and HV @ 1200 fps is just on 10%, I simply cannot see that and extra 120 fps thru the barrel is going to "beat it up" at all.
What exactly can get "beaten" up ?
( using CCI "stingers" @ 1600fps is a completely different story, although the same principals apply )
The slide moving rearwards from the recoil might be slightly higher using HV ammo, but the shell will also have a tighter grip inside the chamber ( due to the higher pressure ) so the actual difference in energy transferred back into the breec h block and slide would not be much.
A recoil buffer to stop the front of the slide smacking into the front of the trigger guard would definitely help. But it is also needed if using SV ammo.
here is a picture of my slide with a very clear witness mark where it was hitting the front part of the trigger guard. ( I now run a recoil buffer to stop this ). This was caused by using CCI SV.
Besides that, the return energy of the slide is a function of the recoil spring. ( Nothing to do with the energy of the ammo )
Using a recoil buffer reduces the rearward travel of the slide, thus reducing the compression of the recoil spring, thus reducing the return energy of the slide and thus the breech block smacking into the barrel breech face.
So I guess what I am saying is..... where is the proof that HV ammo is detrimental ???
And the difference between SV @ 1080 fps and HV @ 1200 fps is just on 10%, I simply cannot see that and extra 120 fps thru the barrel is going to "beat it up" at all.
What exactly can get "beaten" up ?
( using CCI "stingers" @ 1600fps is a completely different story, although the same principals apply )
The slide moving rearwards from the recoil might be slightly higher using HV ammo, but the shell will also have a tighter grip inside the chamber ( due to the higher pressure ) so the actual difference in energy transferred back into the breec h block and slide would not be much.
A recoil buffer to stop the front of the slide smacking into the front of the trigger guard would definitely help. But it is also needed if using SV ammo.
here is a picture of my slide with a very clear witness mark where it was hitting the front part of the trigger guard. ( I now run a recoil buffer to stop this ). This was caused by using CCI SV.
Besides that, the return energy of the slide is a function of the recoil spring. ( Nothing to do with the energy of the ammo )
Using a recoil buffer reduces the rearward travel of the slide, thus reducing the compression of the recoil spring, thus reducing the return energy of the slide and thus the breech block smacking into the barrel breech face.
So I guess what I am saying is..... where is the proof that HV ammo is detrimental ???
I doubt any shooters here have two Model 41's and have tested HV exclusively in one and SV in the other.
I have a newly purchased 1986 Model 41. I'm gonna stick with SV. There's no upside to me shooting HV esp when good SV is readily available nowadays and $.07-.075 a round.
I would imagine folks here would sum it up by saying 'do what you want, it's your gun.'
I have a newly purchased 1986 Model 41. I'm gonna stick with SV. There's no upside to me shooting HV esp when good SV is readily available nowadays and $.07-.075 a round.
I would imagine folks here would sum it up by saying 'do what you want, it's your gun.'
Ranger98
US Veteran
Recoil buffer is the way to go.
Pretty cheap insurance to be able to shoot any available ammo in your area.
Pretty cheap insurance to be able to shoot any available ammo in your area.
Joe Hohmann
Member
My model 41, bought new in 1995, likes Remington Golden Bullet, which is HV. Anything SV will eject OK, but will fail to cock the trigger now and then. Since I'm 74 years old, I'm not too worried about the "future", and will continue to shoot what works.
M19-5
Member
My $.02 cents worth.
Shoot what you want through your M41 that is accurate and functions for the type of shooting you do or expect of your standards.
The M41 was designed for being used as a TARGET pistol.
In my book that is up to 50 yards with using one hand.
Best accuracy from a .22 round is the one that does not transition from sub to super sonic or vise versa at the target distance.
The cheapest ammo I use is CCI-SV at 1050fps.
I use Eley red box, Eley yellow box, Eley black box, Lapua Center X.
All have a common aspect being under the speed of sound at the target of 50 yards.
If you could find great super sonic ammo that would keep it above the speed of sound at 50 yards then that would be good also.
Best bet is to use sub sonic ammo so it will still be sub sonic at the target distance.
If pure accuracy is not needed then shoot what you bring.
Easy enough ?
Shoot what you want through your M41 that is accurate and functions for the type of shooting you do or expect of your standards.
The M41 was designed for being used as a TARGET pistol.
In my book that is up to 50 yards with using one hand.
Best accuracy from a .22 round is the one that does not transition from sub to super sonic or vise versa at the target distance.
The cheapest ammo I use is CCI-SV at 1050fps.
I use Eley red box, Eley yellow box, Eley black box, Lapua Center X.
All have a common aspect being under the speed of sound at the target of 50 yards.
If you could find great super sonic ammo that would keep it above the speed of sound at 50 yards then that would be good also.
Best bet is to use sub sonic ammo so it will still be sub sonic at the target distance.
If pure accuracy is not needed then shoot what you bring.
Easy enough ?
As other have said, there is a lot to read about this but there is mostly opinion.
I believe that standard velocity ammo is more accurate.
I also believe that the 41 is up to the "abuse" of high velocity ammo.
Perhaps the difference comes down to a few key differences in use, goals, attitudes, etc., here are mine:
Thus, I don't fear shooting high velocity ammo through mine.
I believe that standard velocity ammo is more accurate.
I also believe that the 41 is up to the "abuse" of high velocity ammo.
Perhaps the difference comes down to a few key differences in use, goals, attitudes, etc., here are mine:
- If I have to replace a spring or two over the life of the pistol, what is the big deal;
- Though I shoot more often than most gun owners, I, like most gun owners, own and shoot more than one gun. Given that, it is still difficult for me to believe that I will shoot my 41 enough over my lifetime that high velocity will damage it (again, excluding the replacement of small parts);
- My gun doesn't need to outlive the republic. First, I figure that after one or two generations, it will no longer have sentimental value as the third generation probably will never have met me. Second, there will be newer/cooler guns around that will be of more interest to subsequent generations (how many of us are truly stoked about guns that are 60 or more years old that aren't associated with a war).
Thus, I don't fear shooting high velocity ammo through mine.
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mtlucas0311
Member
It seems that both sides of the "is HV potentially damaging" question have been covered. I would only add that if you believe that there's any potential for damage or accelerated wear, then this ammo isn't really worth the risk. I shot Federal Automatch for a season of outdoor and indoor. If you're serious about accuracy it will cost you more points than it's worth. On average I'd have about 1 in 50 rounds that would be noticeably lighter than the others. If I called the shot in the center, I'd have a 6 o'clock hit in the 6 or 7 ring. I haven't had this problem since I switched to Wolf Match Target and now Aquila Pistol Match. CCI Standard Velocity is a fine round, I just haven't found them at a reasonable price in a few years.
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Where I live the CCI SV is the cheapest of the three brands mentioned by the previous poster. The Wolf and Eley brands are here but a lot more money. Yes they work well in my M41 but the CCI is just as accurate as those brands and cheaper is all.
When 719 Match doesn't meet spec, it gets labeled Federal AutoMatch AM22.
ron_c
US Veteran
Shoot the type of ammo you feel comfortable with. Bought my 41 in '83 and the most accurate ammo was Winchester HV HP's, even beating out the Eley stuff and all the other Match ammo. The test were shot in a Ransom Rest at 25 and at 50 yards. I've shot thousands of rounds of the HV over the years.
I contacted S&W about shooting HV, in the 41, and this is their reply:
"Dear Customer,
Yes I would recommend only using the standard velocity ammunition. Using the High Velocity ammunition tends to heat up the barrel quicker and causes it to lead up faster which will cause a dip in accuracy over time.
Thank you and Have a Great Day!
Smith&Wesson values its customers and we are happy to have served you today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.
Regards, Brett"
Notice, they didn't say you couldn't use the HV stuff and in my case, I didn't use it for competition use anyway.
I contacted S&W about shooting HV, in the 41, and this is their reply:
"Dear Customer,
Yes I would recommend only using the standard velocity ammunition. Using the High Velocity ammunition tends to heat up the barrel quicker and causes it to lead up faster which will cause a dip in accuracy over time.
Thank you and Have a Great Day!
Smith&Wesson values its customers and we are happy to have served you today. Please do not hesitate to contact us should you require further assistance.
Regards, Brett"
Notice, they didn't say you couldn't use the HV stuff and in my case, I didn't use it for competition use anyway.
I doubt that.
Quality control in modern manufacturing precludes such eventualities. You make it right the first time. There is too large a volume of AM22 out there to be factory seconds.
Anyone know a source for recoil buffers for this model?
