Model 41 jamming

[CrankyThunder]

I recently purchased a model 41 used. former bullseye shooter gun it appears very well used and it jams about every twenty rounds. I have used CCI SV ammo since I purchase it by the case to feed my 22 bullseye pistols.

I replaced the extractor and recoil springs, two obvious and cheap replacements but that did not address the problem.

Most of the jams are the fired case jammed up against the top strap preventing the next round from fully inserting in the chamber.

Upon inspection, examining the functioning of the pistol, I noticed that the slide stop/ejector appears to be very loose. The screw that holds it and the safety on the left side of the pistol is very tight. The shape of the ejector shows no wear on the top but the looseness of the installed part is what appears to be what is causing the unreliability of the pistol.

First question, how much side to side play is there supposed to be with this part?

Is this a common reliability issue? A search here and on rimfire central turned up virtually zero information on the slide stop/extractor.

I am unable to locate a replacement so I am going to see if I can get a shim washer under the screw head to tighten it up. I have looked at Numerich, Brownells, and Smith and Wesson and am unable to locate a replacement.

Any other suggestions?

Regards,
Cranky

 

[7tcu]

I just bought a used 41 with 5 mags, and i have had the same problem with some of the mags. I used all 5 of them and 3 give me trouble. So my problem is going to be mag springs, I think. Since I have cleaned them and made sure the spring is put in correctly. Good luck with yours.

 

[6string]

The slide stop/ejector is one of the design flaws of the M41. While the M41 is based heavily on the Walther Olympia, the latter used a separate rigid ejector fixed to the frame.
There are two styles of this S&W part. As you can see, the ejector is a notch cut into the bent steel metal part. The old one had that notch near the rear, the later one has the notch further forward. I find the newer part is more reliable.
But, there is still a problem. The ejector kucks the empty slightly upwards as well as to the right. It is possible to bend the ejector part upwards slightly to kick the empty a little more straight out to the right. Unfortunately, if you bend too much, it will drag on the bottom of the slide. So, it's a trial and error process to fit it right.
It's been a while since I last gave this much thought, but I recall that there's a thin spring peened to this part that must be in good shape to keep the ejector as high as possible.

Jim

 

[Barrie]

If the one screw is loose then I would suspect thats the problem with this gun. You are using the right ammo in it so thats not the problem at all. Maybe some locktite may be the answer.

 

[CrankyThunder]

That screw on the left side of the frame is tight.

Took it out and looked at it a little bit closer today.

Measured the slop in the slide stop/ejector and there was 0.035 inches of movement left to right with the magazine inserted, 0.050 with the magazine removed.

I inspected it while cycling the bolt with a empty case without the barrel so I could get a eyeball on what is actually happening on recoil and there is enough slop that the ejector is not hitting on the bottom of the case in the correct position.

Found a replacement at brownells and it is on the way. will let you know if that fixes the problem. I find it hard to believe that I am the first person with a 41 to have it malfunction this way and would appreciate any additional information you guys may have.

Regards,
Cranky

 

[Backlighting]

I too had jamming problems with my 41 a few years ago so I sold it and got a Browning Buckmark. It was half the price of the 41 and just as accurate. Glad I made the switch.

 

[Barrie]

CrankyThunder Welcome to the Forum. I strongly suspect you are doing the right thing by replacing that part. THe M41 is 15 times more quality then any Buckmark pistol ever made. You will find this out when the new part is installed.

 

[CrankyThunder]

CrankyThunder Welcome to the Forum. I strongly suspect you are doing the right thing by replacing that part. THe M41 is 15 times more quality then any Buckmark pistol ever made. You will find thid out when the new part is installed.

Why thank you for the welcome. I have been monitoring this site and I am a user and collector of high quality 22LR target pistols. Finally got a model 41 as a field gun/fun gun and I like the design so much that I already have five different barrels for it, three irons and two red dots. I have only shot a couple thousand rounds through it and once I get it operating reliably, I can tell it will be a fine addition to the collection.

Regards,
Crankster

 

[Backlighting]

CrankyThunder Welcome to the Forum. I strongly suspect you are doing the right thing by replacing that part. THe M41 is 15 times more quality then any Buckmark pistol ever made. You will find thid out when the new part is installed.

15x more quality? Now that's bs. At 2x the cost the M41 is certainly not twice as accurate or twice as reliable. My experience with both is proof...at least to me. BTW the Ruger Mark IV is also a better buy for the money than the M41 imo.

 

[andyo5]

Dunno if this will help but you might want to file it away for future reference.

Model 41 maintenance

 

[Krogen]

Model 41s are notoriously picky. You'll find bucketloads of posts on this site about functional issues as you've experienced. Owning a 41 is like owning a Ferrari - temperamental, but when they work they're a joy. My 41 only likes Eley ammo. Nothing else will do. I went through all sorts of trials and tribulations with it until I put some Eley in it. Keep at it, they're great pistols!

 

[chief38]

The M41 is a very high quality Target Grade Target Pistol and IMHO is in a different class than the Browning Buckmark. The Browning is a good Plinker or informal target shooter - but not a serious contender against the M41, High Standard line, Volquartsen, etc. Not badmouthing the Browning but it is what it is. For the cost = a descent pistol!

That said, the M41 CAN be a bit quirky at times. The good news is that ONCE you solve the issue they usually run trouble free for many many years. Once you get it running right and find the ammo that works best in YOUR copy, you will have a great, very high quality, precise target pistol.

When I first purchased mine new in 1979 I did have some reliability issues and it took me a few sessions at my workbench to figure out why it was giving trouble. In my case the extractor had to be tweaked with a center punch (actually shaped a little - instructions on maintenance website above) and I sharpened it with a file and all was good for the next 40 years. When it wears out - a Volquartsen Edge Extractor will be installed which IMO is better than the OEM one - costs $11.25 from Midway.

Over the years when acquiring NEW magazines I've run into troubles with them and I've spent many hours tweaking and fitting the new mag's to my old pistol. Basically the new Mag's don't play well with the old guns. In the future if I need or want additional Mag's, I will buy used vintage on ebay. They are 3 times the cost of the new ones but 10 times the quality and they work correctly.

If you can't figure out the problem, contact Smith & make arrangements to send it in for repair.

 

[Gamecock]

I bought my 41 new a few years ago. I was disappointed with the finish for such an expensive gun.

Finicky it was. I tried many different loads. Never satisfied.

Solution: I lube the ammo. Couple of drops of oil on my fingers, then massage the cartridges before I load them in magazine. Gun runs 100% now.

Since case adhesion on the chamber is reduced (lost?), I shoot low velocity only, Federal Premium Target, 711B, 1080fps nominal.

 

[chief38]

I bought my 41 new a few years ago. I was disappointed with the finish for such an expensive gun.

Finicky it was. I tried many different loads. Never satisfied.

Solution: I lube the ammo. Couple of drops of oil on my fingers, then massage the cartridges before I load them in magazine. Gun runs 100% now.

Since case adhesion on the chamber is reduced (lost?), I shoot low velocity only, Federal Premium Target, 711B, 1080fps nominal.

Yes the new Bluing process uses different chemicals and it just doesn't compare to the vintage Smith guns - but that's progress. I'm sure EPA laws, MA State reg's, cost, ease of production all play a part.

While lubing the ammo is an old trick - it's my opinion it should not be necessary. Hopefully the pistol will break in or you could try a little JB Bore Compound along with a Cotton Bore Swab and a drill in the Chamber. Worst case - back to S&W!

Most M41's love the CCI Std. Vel. and American Eagle and Federal std. vel. 40 grain are a close second. I've never had too much luck with Remington, Winchester or Eley.

 

[Barrie]

I would never enjoy re-assembling any Ruger handgun having to virtually use a hammer to do it after cleaning. That is not a good design in my eyes but the M41 only takes secs and even a child could do it correctly. To me the M41 has a much better hand feel and balance then the other two also. Thats the Buckmark and Ruger.

 

[CrankyThunder]

Fixed!

Replaced the slide stop/ejector and upon completion, there was significantly less side to side slop and the ejector is able to get a good purchase on the cartridge for ejection.

Was at the range for a bullseye match and after I shot my match with my other pistol, was able to get a lane and give the 41 a bit of a run down to confirm function. Ran about 60 rounds through with only one jam which was the classic fired case caught above the next round. It was the second or third round fired and was followed by another sixty or so rounds without a malfunction.

Appears to be fixed but need more range time to confirm.

 

[Barrie]

I usually put a drop of oil on my top bullet while loaded in the mag. When my 1958 M41 is cold it will have a few jams but the oil takes care of just about all problems until the barrel is heated up a bit. I have only had one bad bullet so far in the last 3 bricks of CCI SV ammo.

 

[Gamecock]

I usually put a drop of oil on my top bullet while loaded in the mag. When my 1958 M41 is cold it will have a few jams but the oil takes care of just about all problems until the barrel is heated up a bit.

Interesting. I'll try that, instead of oiling all.

 

[Barrie]

You should have the same results by doing this only.

 

[greenmachine]

I usually put a drop of oil on my top bullet while loaded in the mag. When my 1958 M41 is cold it will have a few jams but the oil takes care of just about all problems until the barrel is heated up a bit. I have only had one bad bullet so far in the last 3 bricks of CCI SV ammo.

I have always done this with my 1911 .45 bullseye guns. Never needed to with my M41 or my High Standards.