Model 41 jamming

[jimc00]

I have a Model 41 made in 1969. I have owned it since about 1971. The recoil spring was replaced about 4 years ago and until recently it has worked flawlessly.

It started to either stovepipe or the slide doesn't go back far enough to extract or cock the hammer only the first two rounds after a reload.

I cleaned it but didn't fully strip the frame. I verified that the extractor is free. I tried a mag that came with the pistol and one that was made about 4 years ago with the plastic follower. I switched the barrel. I tried 2 different Federal standard velocity loads that worked before and Aguila HV. I loaded 10, 8 and 6 rounds and it still only jams on the first 2 shots.

Does anyone have any ideas???

 

[armorer951]

If you have ruled out shooting debris, etc. , I would suspect the recoil spring first....especially since the malfunctions are happening on the first two rounds out of the magazine. Other, more knowledgeable 41 owners will be along shortly to help diagnose the problem.

Just a heads up on the recoil spring....be sure the open end of the recoil spring, if the spring has an open end (cut end), is at the back, and the closed end of the spring is toward the muzzle.

 

[leinster lad]

it is not going to be the recoil spring.

As a spring ages, it weakens.

This will cause to OPPOSITE to what you are describing.

You mentioned that you changed out the barrel ?
So I assume that means that you have a spare one ?
If so, we can assume that it has a clean chamber and can thus rule that out.

That leaves the slide and the frame.

The first thing that I would do would be to replace the extractor with a Volquartsen one. Cheap and easy job.
While to bolt is out of the slide, it would be a good idea ( but not related to this issue ) to clean the firing pin and its channel and the spring.

Give the extractor spring, hole, pin and slot a very good clean and de-burr.

assemble in this order;
spring, pin and then extractor claw.

Then use CCI standard velocity rounds. It is a very good idea to wipe any excessive wax off them.
Make sure that they can just drop in and fall out of the barrel chamber using only gravity.

Make sure that the slide travels smoothly and easily in the frame.


Let us know how you get on.

 

[chief38]

After a thorough cleaning I'd suggest replacing the extractor with the $11 Volquartsen. It is forged and is much better than the Factory original part. It is a straight forward job and the only tools you need are a Punch, a Hammer, a "soft" bench block and a workbench. For the $11 bucks it's well worth giving that a shot as I have seen this part cause problems in M41's including my own.

 

[jimc00]

I'll get the extractor. But what could cause the hammer to not reset only on the first two rounds. When I go to the range I usually bring the 5 1/2. bull barrel and a 5 1/2 sporter barrel just for fun. Before I go next time, I'll clean both chambers and I'll also bring a 7 3/8" as another test. I think that the long barrel has less than 2 mags through it.

 

[armorer951]

There is additional pressure exerted on the bottom of the bolt during cyling when the magazine is full, that's why I mentioned checking the orientation of the recoil spring. If the recoil spring is not installed properly, rearward (full) slide movement can be inhibited.

 

[leinster lad]

OP mentioned it happens with 10,8, or 6 rounds loaded

 

[leinster lad]

OP, how do you know that the hammer is NOT resetting ????

 

[jimc00]

There is an indicator to show the position of the hammer and I Verified that it is working correctly.

 

[Rule3]

Start simple, replace the recoil spring AND the magazine springs.(check orientation as mentioned)

Try a few HV rounds (no you are not gonna hurt it) Does it work with those.

Then move on to the more complex stuff.

 

[Ed Fowler]

My last batch of CCI Std Vel was jam o matic stuff in my mod 41, then tried some Remington Std Vel and it runs perfect. Have 4 bricks of CCI to get rid of, won't shoot in revolvers either, fill the chambers with junk. Usually the CCI works well. I would change ammo before I started changing parts.

 

[jimc00]

I put in a Volquartsen extractor, cleaned and lightly lubed the extractor spring and pin. Replaced the firing pin spring, replaced the recoil spring. Replaced 2 out of three mag springs, I left one as is as a control.

I cleaned everything, lightly lubed the hammer spring. Cleaned 3 barrels.

I went to the range today and it on the first two or three rounds, the empty brass either stays in the chamber or stove pipes. The cocking indicator is flush with the frame. I have to rack the slide and the brass extracts, ejects and the hammer cocks. The rest of the magazine will function properly.

I have used three different magazines, three different barrels, 3 different standard velocity loads and one high velocity load. Even though I have been shooting this postol since 1970, I tried holding it tightly and limp wristing it and it still fails the same way.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I am going to look at the ejector/slide stop to see if there is anything obvious there but those are only available as a used part from GPC.

 

[Ed Fowler]

What ammo have you tried?

I soak my magazines in rubbing alcohol, blow them out with a compressed air, then oil with Break Free and again compressed air, that may help

 

[Krogen]

Make sure it's lubed sufficiently. There are two areas I rarely hear mentioned. I have found leaving them dry causes problems. Use a light coat of grease on the part of the hammer that contacts the slide. Also put a light coat of grease on the rib of the slide where it contacts the underside of the barrel. You'll see the wear marks. Don't use oil, use grease like Superlube.

 

[algeciras]

i have the same problem with both of my model 41s,,,,,i have the same complaints everyone else seems to have,everyone tells to clean the gun,use different ammo,and replace the springs,,,,,in my opinion,the gun is just far over rated,,,,,i see so many people having the same issues as i have,,,,,,

 

[Dave Lively]

i have the same problem with both of my model 41s,,,,,i have the same complaints everyone else seems to have,everyone tells to clean the gun,use different ammo,and replace the springs,,,,,in my opinion,the gun is just far over rated,,,,,i see so many people having the same issues as i have,,,,,,

Either that or the combination of a 41 and CCI or other types of standard velocity is overrated.

Once I gave up trying to get my 41 to be reliable with CCI SV and started shooting MiniMags it has become the very accurate, trouble free and fun to shoot 22 I wanted it to be. I did buy a recoil buffer the reduce the impact of the slide hitting the frame but so far have seen no sign of damage from the high velocity ammo.

I went through the steps you mentioned and still could not get my 41 to run reliably with SV ammo. I was about to replace it with a Ruger Mark 4 but decided to use high velocity ammo instead. S&W 41s are not some precious work of art that must be handled with kid gloves and preserved at all costs. Worst case is the gun will break and I will have to replace it with something else.

If you are shooting competition the SV ammo is more accurate. But even with high velocity ammo my 41 is more accurate than I am.

 

[Ed Fowler]

Some ammo companies have bad batches of ammo, the last CCI standard velocity I purchased were very inconsistent and dirty, set them aside for company that wants to shoot. This latest batch of Remington Standard velocity from Midway has been great.

This summer I shot at least 50 rounds a day through my Mod 41, it just gets better when the ammo is out of a good batch.

 

[Sebring Pop]

Holy Cow I cant believe so many 41's are having these kind of problems.
I have 3 with no modifications, I clean them in a tub of kerosene using soft brushes and just soaking. Dry with a hair dryer and Break Free on the slide only. CCI std velocity and they are good for about 1000 rounds or so before I do the same thing all over again.
I use them for Bullseye shooting in 3 leagues and practice.

 

[wetdog1911]

My 1990 M41 just never cared much for CCI SV. The 50 rnd boxes from CCI ran Ok, but the 100 rnd thay Federal produced was iffy. Same deal with my SM ACE. The Ruger MK I didn't care.

A fellow shooter told me to give Wolf MT and clued me in that SK made it and it was not Russian junk. This was some years back when it was relatively unknown. Problems just went away, no misfires, FTF, FTE, nada.

Worked so well I splurged on 2 cases from a deal in the Shotgun News and have been using it ever since in all my .22s.

I kept reccommending it, or the SK Standard+, but didn't realize just how much the price had gone up. I paid under $200/case including shipping and now it's more than double that (I said this was some years ago). Even so, stored in ammo cans in a controlled environment, I've noticed no degredation.

Haven't shot any American made .22 lr in over 2 decades. Don't think I'm missing much of anything there, especially after the shortage when quality hasn't seemed to improve any.

Rob

 

[MJK-MOD-547]

This is what I've been shooting in my 41. No problems with these.