Model 41 Jamming

[NavyVet24]

I bought a 1983 mfr Model 41 w/box, tools, manual recently. No apparent sign that it was ever fired. Cleaned thoroughly and oiled lightly. Test fired with CCI Standard Velocity (1070 fps). Repeated jams. Cleaned again thinking it must be something I missed. Yesterday, same thing. Spent case not fully ejecting and round coming out of magazine jamming against spent case. Changed to Eley Target (yellow label) and it was much better. I am thinking that I need to use a bit faster ammo for a few hundred rounds to better break it in. Maybe even some CCI Target at 1200 fps. TIA for the learned advice of other 41 owners.

 

[oysterer]

I run 7.0 lbs recoil springs in mine when shooting standard velocity instead of the 7.5 lbs stock. Works very very well. What you describe is a recoil spring problem, slide not going back far enough

 

[Hair Trigger]

I have a M41 a couple of years newer than yours (1985), and I had similar issues when I first got it, using the low end of SV ammo. I started using ammo like Remington Thunderbolt and Golden Bullet, which is around 1250-1300 fps, and it hasn't malfunctioned once, so I'm thinking the other stuff doesn't have enough energy to properly cycle the action. I suppose a different spring set could also fix your issue, but I'd try some higher velocity ammo first. just don't go as far as Stingers, they have a longer case and may not feed as well, and are probably too HV.

 

[series guy]

I had the exact same issue. Now I spray a little Ballistol on my CCI SV rounds. Haven’t had an issue since.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

As I’ve decided to shoot my Red Dot 1990s M41 in 2 gun matches instead of a 1952 MT Woodsman. I’ve been using Federal 550 box to experiment with. I’ve put a couple hundred through it with no problems. It has a buffer. Shooting offhand and at speed are you guys seeing any real difference between sv and hs ammo?

 

[chief38]

Standard "fixes" include:

1) Buy and install a Volquartsen Extractor (about $15 bucks last I checked). Much improvement over the factory one and will usually remedy the problem.

2) You can try installing a 7 pound spring instead of the 7.5 Factory one. If Wolff has not already corrected the issue, install the opened end rearward or your M41 will quickly jam closed - not fun! They might have corrected the issue by finishing both ends now -just giving you the heads up.

3) Try a few different Magazines (preferably vintage metal follower type).

4) Try some other type of ammo. Yes- the CCI standard velocity 40 grain is usually what works best in 95% of M41's, however there are a few exceptions. Certainly worth a shot.

When I had similar issues when my M41 was new in 1980 I shot a brick of High Velocity ammo through the pistol. Not only did that work flawlessly but it seemed to break in the pistol for the standard velocity ammo after that initial brick. I would not use any really hot ammo but regular CCI or Federal HV 40 grain ammo might do the trick. No accuracy loss or excessive wear was done but I would do this with the standard 7.5 lb Factory Recoil Spring - not a lighter one.

 

[NavyVet24]

Thanks a ton to all. It appears that my thoughts about velocity not being high enough for full slide cycling are probably correct. I will keep the standard spring for now and run a brick of higher velocity 40 Gr rounds through it, then reassess. In the meantime, I will try to find some original type magazines since i only have the 2 that came with it. Also, continue my searching for a 7" barrel. So odd that the box is serial number correct for this pistol, but it has a 5.5" barrel instead of the 7" marked on the box. I guess things like this are what makes life interesting - much better than watching the news.

 

[chief38]

Thanks a ton to all. It appears that my thoughts about velocity not being high enough for full slide cycling are probably correct. I will keep the standard spring for now and run a brick of higher velocity 40 Gr rounds through it, then reassess. In the meantime, I will try to find some original type magazines since i only have the 2 that came with it. Also, continue my searching for a 7" barrel. So odd that the box is serial number correct for this pistol, but it has a 5.5" barrel instead of the 7" marked on the box. I guess things like this are what makes life interesting - much better than watching the news.

Yes - a Brick of HV might help wear in the gun and compress the factory spring slightly. If you want to sick with std. vel. simply order a 7 pound recoil spring - MAKE SURE to install it open end rearward if Wolff has not corrected the issue yet. If you haven't already done so - the Volquartsen Extracor also helps greatly if that is the issue. Not hard to install and not expensive.

 

[Larks]

If you do a search on M41 jamming here you’ll found dozens of threads on the subject and I went through all of the proposed “fixes” that have been pointed out here already ..... largely to no avail.

I put that down to every gun being different so don’t give up if the first thing that you try doesn’t work - in my case I believe it is a combination of fixes have given me a result. Here are some of the things that I went through over the years - roughly in order:

Clean gun meticulously after every use and oil sparingly with a very fine grade gun oil. Result: possible slight improvement but issue not resolved

Try multiple types of ammo’, including higher velocity ammo. Result: CCI Standard Velocity gave best result (High velocity ammo of any brand gave the worst)

Drop of oil on the first round. Result: no improvement

Clean magazines. Result: no improvement

Clean brass with Balistol. Result: possibly a very slight improvement on the day of cleaning but still getting ejection failures and any ammo was definitely no better than uncleaned ammo a week or more later (I wonder if the Balistol must gum up a bit after a while in hot weather...???).

Volquartsen after market extractor. Result: no real improvement

Clean ammo with G96 (lay the ammo on a soft cloth, quick squirt of G96 and roll the ammo around in the cloth for a while). Result: slight improvement but still enough ejection failures during a comp’ to ruin the run.

Carefully polish the breach with a fine metal polish (a gunsmith had suggested reaming it). Result: I have now not had a single jam in over 2000 rounds now since doing so (knock on wood). I shoot a steel challenge competition with my M41 fortnightly and have been regularly winning the comp’ since finally resolving this ejection issue after so many years of persisting with it.

BUT - I put it down to a combination of factors, not just the polishing:

I still have the aftermarket Volquartsen extractor fitted;

I still clean the firearm meticulously after every shoot and oil sparingly with a very fine gun oil; and

I still clean my ammo with G96 before every shoot

 

[armorer951]

Do you mean that you polished the "breech" or the chamber? If the chamber, can you elaborate on how you polished the chamber, and what specific "fine metal polish" you used? Thanks

 

[Larks]

Do you mean that you polished the "breech" or the chamber? If the chamber, can you elaborate on how you polished the chamber, and what specific "fine metal polish" you used? Thanks

Deju-vu.......haven’t we had this discussion before? When I say breech I mean the back end of the barrel which includes the chamber......I use the term breech to include the chamber and am unlikely to change that habit after 60 years.


The attached vid (which I had posted here back in January Mod 41 Eject fails - an observation on ammo variability ) shows how I polished it, what I didn’t mention in the video or in the above comment is that I also polished the feed ramp while I had the polish out (as I don’t believe that was effecting my ejection issues):


My Movie 1 - YouTube

 

[AveragEd]

What you've read above is very accurate. I recently bought a new 7" Model 41 and it almost will not eject an empty case - they lie across the round being chambered as described by the OP. S&W suggested using CCI SV ammo as that is what they test-fire with; I was using match fodder. They also suggested a Wolff 7# spring which I bought but thought if it passed test-firing with the factory 7.5# spring, maybe they should look at it so it's been back about two weeks now as the CCI SV didn't eject either.

On another topic, I'd like to put a dot optic on it when it comes back - any suggestions for a no-gunsmithing mount?

Ed

 

[Larks]

What you've read above is very accurate. I recently bought a new 7" Model 41 and it almost will not eject an empty case - they lie across the round being chambered as described by the OP. S&W suggested using CCI SV ammo as that is what they test-fire with; I was using match fodder. They also suggested a Wolff 7# spring which I bought but thought if it passed test-firing with the factory 7.5# spring, maybe they should look at it so it's been back about two weeks now as the CCI SV didn't eject either.

On another topic, I'd like to put a dot optic on it when it comes back - any suggestions for a no-gunsmithing mount?

Ed

First suggestion - search “M41 red dot” on this forum and you’ll find multiple options

 

[Hair Trigger]

I've read most, if not all, the posts on this forum regarding problems with the M41. It seems like, the newer the pistol is, the more likely there have been issues with function, especially since about 1995-2000, when people have mentioned the age of the pistol.

I bought mine from a LGS, where it had been sitting on the shelf for several months. The store owner's dad (a very knowledgeable firearms person, an Army SF armorer) had purchased the pistol many years ago (it was made in 1985, not sure if he was the original owner) and had obviously not fired it much, if at all. It was clean outside and in perfect condition, but while not terribly dirty inside, had some accumulated grime on the breech face around the extractor and around the top of the magazine well. I fired it like that and it would fail to eject about 3 rounds out of every magazine, either from not extracting the fired round, or from "stove piping" the partially ejected round. I disassembled it and thoroughly cleaned it, scrubbing the breech and extractor area especially well. greased the slide rails with Lubriplate 130A and lightly oiled the mechanism and then wiped it. I tried a higher velocity ammo the next time out (Remington Golden Bullet and Remington Thunderbolt), and it has not malfunctioned since, after maybe 350 rounds. I concluded that the ammo I had used the first time was too low a MV for reliable function, since the action is a blowback design, although the thorough cleaning certainly didn't hurt anything. Polishing the breech, chamber and feed ramp should aid in both feeding and extraction, and I will probably do this to my pistol.

 

[armorer951]

Thanks for the video and description. Hopefully, this will help someone in the future.

 

[sceva]

Your Mod 41 probably originally had a 7" barrel like the box said and someone added a 5.5" barrel and sold the 7". They are usually pretty much drop in.