Model 41 Lightweight Sporter

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tipoc

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I picked this up not that long ago. It's the first one of these that I'd seen in person. It's a M41 Lightweight Sporter SN 411xx from sometime in the early 60's I think. It also came with a 7" barrel with a muzzle break.



Note that the front sight on the lightweight slide was cut away though it was not lowered. It did match the profile of the long slide originally it appears. It looks like a cut down and lightened long slide from the factory.





It joins it's peers. 701xx with a heavy 5" slide and 1101xx with a 7" barrel.





I'm not sure how many were made or if they appeared in any other factory format.

If you have any info share it please. Other pics would be appreciated as well.

tipoc
 
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To be honest, I've never heard or seen any production info on the lightweight sporter. Otherwise then that, it's a nice looking piece.
 
S&W introduced the 5" field barrel for the M41 in 1959 both as an accessory and as a complete pistol. The first were purpose built as 5" barrels and not cut down 7 3/8" barrels. This is what you have as shown by the fact that your front sight is an integral part of the barrel and not one that has been attached as a separate piece. There is no seam between the barrel and the sight base at the muzzle and the checkering on the top strap extends seamlessly up the sight base. Look on the rear of the barrel lug and see if there is any indication that the barrel was ever drilled for the weight and then filled in as was done for the cut down long barrels conversions. Your front sight was originally a ramp that someone converted to a patridge by grinding down the serrated ramp portion.

The protruding muzzle, usually called a nub, shows it to be an early version of the field barrel. Later versions have the recessed muzzle. For me at least, the field barrels are a fascinating subset of model 41 collecting and welcome anyone that can add to my knowledge.

My M41 is near identical to yours at SN: 188xx.
 
Thank you for the post.

When I said "...looks like a cut down and lightened long slide..." I did not mean that they were originally 7" barrels and cut down from that to 5". It's obvious that was not the case. No they were originally factory built to 5". However, they match in profile the longer slides. At least in this case.

Note, the role marks appear in the same place, in relation to the chamber, on the three versions of the slides.

The relief cuts on the lightweight slide and the long slide begin and end in the same places. Note the ball cut on the bottom front of both slides.

I also note the differences in the ampersand on the slides that I have.

tipoc
 
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I had one of the sporter barrels as an accessory item---way back when, and was unaware of any pistols shipped carrying that barrel.

Does it letter?

Ralph Tremaine
 
The 5" bbl is interesting. The standard "&" dates it after the "A" prefix was added. I suggest it needs to be measured. Guess it will be closer to 4 3/4" than 5" (although lengths varied from run to run). Also, not certain that front sight is not an add-on, but better photos would help?
 
The lightweight barrel measures 4.940" or .060' short of 5". Close to 4 15/16. Call it 5".

The heavy barrel is 5.560" in length or 5 9/16 We can call 5 1/2.

This according to my 8" Mitutoyo calipers and a 6" steel scale.

On these guns the slides may not date to the frame. Folks may have changed or added them.

There are pics on one of the light weights in the 4th edition of the SC. They show a different profile to the front site of the lightweight.

At the bottom in this pic is the heavy slide.



Note the tool marks on the cut away section of the lightweight front sights. I believe that a previous owner altered them from a profile closer to that of the long slide.



A few things to notice that may mean nothing but...

The front sight of the lightweight ends abruptly at the muzzle while the heavy barrel and the long barrel do not.

Note the checkering on the long slide compared to the lightweight in relation to where the checkering ends on the ramp. Note that the checkering continues under the sight ramp on the heavy barrel but not under the long barrel.









These details may not mean much. It also could be that the front sight on the lightweight was a bit different in it's own right.

Also I assume the rear sights on the long slide and the lightweight are Keng sights while the heavy are the Millet. Which if consistent is interesting. Why?

tipoc
 
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Decades ago I remember there was a gunsmith who specialized in taking Smith model 41s and turning them into very small lightweight kit guns. They looked really cool and they would shoot just as good or better than the factory full size guns, and I don’t remember the price but I think if you had to ask how much it was then you couldn’t afford it.
 
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Small point: The two earliest guns (5 digits no letter prefix) have Model 41 marked on the frame while the 1101xx has Model-41 on the frame.

The weight of the piece with the lightened slide is 34.6 ozs.
The heavy barrel 44.4 ozs.
The long barrel 42.4 ozs.

I weighed these with an empty mag in place and the stocks on.

The light weight slide is a great weight and size for trail carry and field use. It could ride quite well in a holster. If S&W produced more of the light weight slides today I believe they could open up a new market for themselves here. Selling the Model 41 with a 3 slide fitted version would make for a very versatile gun.

tipoc
 
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I've always thought that the protruding muzzle on the 5" field barrel was an indication that it was one of the early production runs - 1959 through the early sixties with the later runs with a countersunk muzzle. But Tom Beckwith saw what I missed, the later upright ampersand that says it is of a later run. My barrel is identical to yours except mine has the old lazy ampersand. Is there anyone that can help with the history of the field barrels?

Tipoc, of this some of the best photography I've seen in a lone while. Sharp with excellent detail really helps with our discussion.
 
I am not a collector. I bought my 41 to shoot, so it is not much to look at. When I bought this one the seller said it had two barrels, a 7" and a 5" and I thought he meant a 5-1/2". It turned out to be a 5", but this one is a later made one with the front sight added on. I am enclosing a few pics. for you all to take a look at. I did cover the ser. #.
ZCIFMiF.jpg

D0nRu4h.jpg

7GwJWCe.jpg
 
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It's a light weight slide all right. Interesting the red ramp.

Is that a recessed muzzle for the lightweight in the pic just below and to the left of the pic of the label on the box? Post #3 above talks about that some.

BTW, it's a good looking gun. Don't know what you mean "not much to look at". My 41's, above, are all shooters. I got them used and have used them plenty myself. I just try to keep them clean. Though you can see the use particularly in the stocks.

tipoc
 
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Yes it is recessed. Ì have never used the barrel. Need to try it out one day.
 
Farmer17 said:
Decades ago I remember there was a gunsmith who specialized in taking Smith model 41s and turning them into very small lightweight kit guns. They looked really cool and they would shoot just as good or better than the factory full size guns, and I don’t remember the price but I think if you had to ask how much it was then you couldn’t afford it.
Click to expand...

You may be thinking of the knifemaker Bob Loveless. There are a couple of threads on this forum about his guns.

SW Model 41 No Markings

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-...ct-slides-loveless.html?585047=#post140363711

Austin Behlert customized some 41's as did Jim Clark. There are some who will do it today as well.
 
tipoc, my LW 5" is like yours, but the sight has not been cut and it is a serrated ramp. Same upright &, integral ramp and checkering. Looking inside the lug, I can see the threading for the weight, and looking at the front, I can see the plug outline in the brewing. Interesting differences in these Bbls!
 
I own a S&W Model 41, with the Muzzle break. Purchased in 1973 at a WoolWorths 5 & Dime store. Today's equivalent of a K-Mart.
It has a 7-3/8" barrel. Holds 10 rounds in the mags. At that time I paid $165.00, Now they go for $1,500 to $ 1,700. Mine Always shot great, Just started having trouble with it about a month ago. Where it doesn't always fully close when it inserts a new round into the chamber. A slight push on the slide, fixes the problem, for THAT one shot. The gun also came with a replacement muzzle "crown, if you didn't want to use the muzzle brake. Interesting fact: On mine, if you remove the screw holding on the muzzle brake & the muzzle brake itself. There is another screw, that when removed a small metal tube (from memory-is about 2" long) that slides in under the barrel can be removed. The gun came with 2 of these tubes. One was made of Steel, and the other was Aluminum. So you could increase or decrease the weight at the end of the barrel, at the muzzle end. If you didn't have the manuals at that time, you wouldn't even know that it existed. I still have one in the gun, lost the other one somewhere along the way. Back in the 60's or 70's This was the go-to gun for shooting in the Olympics. I've had less jams or failures in 45 years with my model 41, then I have had with the FIRST 8 shot mag with a S&W 380 EZ, I Just bought TODAY 3/9/19.
 
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Some info from 1984 concerning the barrels & sights
19mReRS.jpg

N1yU4P2.jpg
 
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Interesting, the front sight ramp base in the pic above is really short, I bet that is a cut down 7.38” or 5.5” bbl. My 5” bbl has the separate sight/base(.820” long) & convex cover plug with screw from the back side to cover up the comp screw hole that would have been on the long bbl. But what I find interesting is, I have the “nub” style bbl crown instead of of the later recessed crown. Bbl measures 4.985”.
 
These field barrels are indeed interesting. Mine came along with a 7 3/8" barrel when I bought the 41 in the mid 80's. No history on the gun, but it came with both barrels, the false muzzle, muzzle brake and both steel and aluminum screw-in weights. I wish I could date the barrels as I don't know if they're contemporaries or not. The 7 3/8" barrel has the lazy ampersand. The 5" field barrel has an upright ampersand. Additionally, the 5" has a recessed muzzle, no evidence of a plugged hole for the weights, but the Patridge sight is not an integral part of the barrel. So, it's a little puzzling if that points to a cut barrel or not - no plug, but an attached front sight.
 
I picked up a 5" Sporter / Field barrel for my M41 about a year and a half ago and absolutely love it! I shoot the best groups with it since I bought my M41 new in 1979! I paid a lot for the Sporter barrel (actually more than I paid for the whole gun new in 1979) because it was brand new and over 40 years old - still in the original S&W wrapping paper. Still...... I could not be happier with the results!
 
Were there two different slides for the M41 as stated above, and if so what is the width of the light weight?
Thanks in advance.
 
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