Model 52 Problems

[Tom-C]

I have a Model 52 that I have shot in Bullseye for several years and lately I have had several problems crop up. My pistol has a 1inch Ultra Dot of a slide mounted rail. My load is 2.7 gr Tite Group and a 148 gr Precision Delta WC. Recently when I take the pistol apart to clean it, I am starting to find a build-up of wax at 6 O'Clock, about 1/4 inch back from the front of the chamber. It is very hard to clean. Suggestions? This may have something to do with problem #2. Once in a while (and of course in Timed or Rapid) when I come up, the trigger will not fire the pistol, but when the RO comes over to check the pistol it fires normally. Of course I have not been able to duplicate it in practice. I have a stock recoil spring in the pistol. It has run fine through about 1,000 of these reloads. Suggestions? How about a heaver or lighter recoil spring?

The other problem is the Recoil Spring Guide Assembly has developed a burr that makes it difficult to remove the recoil spring during disassembly. Is this part common to any other S&W? Is this problem common? Could I put it in the lathe and just touch it with a lathe bit. I guess my question is how small is too small?

Thanks

 

[Ignatz]

I one time adjusted the over travel too "tight" along with the screw inside the frame and had a couple failure to fires. I just backed out those two screws, and everything worked fine.
I used Bullseye powder, about 2.7-2.8 and had no problems and still have powder from the 90's. If I ran out of Bullseye for a Model 52, I'd go with WST.
Titegroup, from what I'm told, burns hot. Maybe the 52 doesn't like Titegroup.

 

[Sevens]

I'll make mine the second vote against Titegroup in this application. While I cannot sit here and guarantee it is the problem, I can say with some authority that the high nitro content of Titegroup absolutely makes this powder burn hotter, quite a bit hotter than most any other powder on the market. In combination with soft lead bullets, this could be the source of your problem.

I use the old standby -- 2.7gr Alliant Bullseye. Tons of folks run w231, amongst other powders.

As for the fail to fire problem, another great suggestion by Ignatz, both/either of your trigger screws could wreak havoc with the trigger's operation. It should be noted that "setting" these screws in what seems like exactly the correct place at home does not always translate to smooth operation during live fire. These screws have been known to migrate and change what was formerly a working setting. A dab of loc-tite here is a fine idea, as is an eighth-turn out from where you think you might want it set.

Lastly, I have seen in some S&W 1-2-3rd Gen pistols... erratic operation if you might happen to be using some kind of stocks or grips that are not original... if they should happen to make incidental contact with the trigger bar. Ensure that your trigger bar is not being impeded by any stocks or grips you may be using.

The guide rod, tough to diagnose that without pictures, and maybe tough even then. I did pull out one of my 52's and one of my 745's in hopes that perhaps they were similar -- but they are not similar enough. The 52's rod is a wee bit longer and steel, the 745's a touch shorter and aluminum. So I grabbed the 645 on a whim and predictably, it's the same as the 745. Sorry.

 

[boatbum101]

Personally I don't like either Titegroup nor PD's bullets . Better choices for 38 special wadcutter ammo . Wolff makes a 7lb recoil spring which I run with a slide mount 1" UD . I'd take a bronze bore brush & scrub the heck out chamber / bore . Besides overtravel screws if slides not going fully into battery trigger won't work . Burr on rod stone/file it down .
Powders for 38 spec HBWC loads BE , W231 , WST , 700X etc . Remington makes best swaged lead HBWC & Zero / Magnus also have a good one . PD sold me 10K undersized 45 cal 185 LSWCHP that won't group @ 50yds they won't replace . I've been using them for 25yd TF/RF practice for about 12 years . Needless to say I wouldn't use their products again .

 

[H Richard]

I had a 52-2 I bought in 1990. It was a very accurate gun if I did my part. But, it did have something wrong, where the brass would all be somewhat swelled at the base. Either the chamber was a little over size, or it was unlocking too soon. It was a very critical gun to shoot, if my grip was a little off it would be either a 10 or a 7. I never 9's or 8's. I found I could shoot my Gold Cup much better.

 

[Engineer1911]

When I bought my M52-2 in the early 1980s, I also bought a box of Remington HB wadcutters. The brass ejected about 6 feet from my hand to the first bounce on the ground.

Brass from my reloads hit the ground about 4 to 5 feet away from my hand. Never had a problem, told no one what my specific load was, and never bought more Bullseye after the first pound was gone.

 

[Sevens]

I’m not sure I understand the cryptic end to your post?

 

[Tom-C]

I’m not sure I understand the cryptic end to your post?

,
Sevens, the end of the recoil spring guide rod has obviously been peened larger. It would be trivial to put it in the lathe and turn it down, but how much.
Tom-C

 

[Tom-C]

Lastly, I have seen in some S&W 1-2-3rd Gen pistols... erratic operation if you might happen to be using some kind of stocks or grips that are not original... if they should happen to make incidental contact with the trigger bar. Ensure that your trigger bar is not being impeded by any stocks or grips you may be using.

[/QUOTE]

Back in 2014 I had Randall Fung make me custom grips for my 52. Wonderful grips. I have small hands and often the shelf will not go up far enough. I will check the trigger bar is clear.
Thanks
Tom-C

 

[Tom-C]

Guys,
Thanks for all the comments. I have used Bullseye and 231 for years but was trying for something less dirty. I have some Bullseye reloads from before the rail was out on. After I put the rail on, I figured I would need to redo the load. BTW a load that cycles perfectly on the Ransom rest may not cycle perfectly in your hand. But they are great training loads. They cycle far enough to eject and cock the hammer, but not enough to pick up another cartridge, so the next shot is a dry fire.
Tom-C

 

[boatbum101]

FWIW BME makes a selection of mounts for the 52 . I chose the one that replaces rear sight as it's non D&T . Not much recoil impulse so weight is an issue with slide mount . 1" UD & will function / shoot well with 3.1 - 3.2 W231/HP38 . I too find the 52 a " squirmy finicky demanding witch " even with barrel weight . Great for trigger control / follow thru training as feedback is immediate .

 

[Kp321]

I am using EGW red dot mounts on both of my 52-1’s, Burris FF3 on one, Vortex Viper on other. Didn’t need to adjust my load of 2.8 gr of BE on either pistol. The EGW mounts tapped into the rear sight dovetails with just enough friction to be secure but not requiring the big hammer.
I agree that a 52 requires steady nerves and good follow through which has made me a better shot with all pistols.

 

[Tom-C]

FWIW BME makes a selection of mounts for the 52 . I chose the one that replaces rear sight as it's non D&T . Not much recoil impulse so weight is an issue with slide mount . 1" UD & will function / shoot well with 3.1 - 3.2 W231/HP38 . I too find the 52 a " squirmy finicky demanding witch " even with barrel weight . Great for trigger control / follow thru training as feedback is immediate .

Boatbum,
My rail is full length. I started with a Al Marvel full-length Gold Cup rail. Opened up the front slot to take the S&W front sight (wider at the base than the Gold Cup) and cut it off in the back to clear the rear sight. If I take it off, the sights are still there, and all I have to do is put in plugs in 4 openings for the screws. Relieved the ejection port opening. When I did it, the Ultra Dot was the preferred sight for Bullseye. The remaining part of the rail became a short rail on a 7 1/2-inch Model 41 with muzzle brake. Looks neat but I have never been able to get that pistol to shoot very well with or without the muzzle brake.

 

[Tom-C]

Personally I don't like either Titegroup nor PD's bullets . Better choices for 38 special wadcutter ammo . Wolff makes a 7lb recoil spring which I run with a slide mount 1" UD .

Boatbum,
What is the standard recoil spring?

 

[boatbum101]

std is 8lb IIRC . The 5.5" HB 41's shot better for me .

 

[martyd]

With over 40 years, started mid 1970"s, shooting the Model 52 trying many powders I keep coming back to Bullseye 2.7gr for pistol reliability and uniform accuracy shot after shot.