Model 53 & Model 25

[Skyhunter]

My son-in-law recently inherited a Model 53 and a Model 25 (I'm guessing from the photo he sent me).
The Model 53 has the original box, chamber inserts, and the extra cylinder. Tools seem to be missing, but the search continues. It's hard to judge the overall condition of the revolver from the photo (I haven't been able to see either of these revolvers as we're about 350 miles apart.), but conservatively speaking, I'd judge it to be north of 95%.
The Model 25 is in .45 Colt and appears to have the target trigger and hammer, but no box or tools at this point. Conservatively speaking, I'd judge its condition to be north of 95%. Appears to be a very nice shooter.
He really has no interest in keeping either revolver and is therefore curious as to their reasonable value. I'm trying to help him in that regard.
So what are your thoughts on the value of each revolver?

Thanks,
Skyhunter

[/ATTACH]

 

[steelslaver]

The 45 colt is a model 25-5 or later and does not appear to have a barrel pin. This means it likely has correct sized cylinder throats unlike those before did not usually have. A 95% gun would be north of $1000

The 6" model 53. Having the 22lr cylinder is huge. That cylinder alone would bring over $500. The inserts also add over $100 to the package. Probably $1500 bottom dollar.

Those estimates are on the low sell it now side IMHO if guns are as described.

Check on the frame behind where the yoke closes to get the dash numbers, that follow mdl numbers, as they will define a few things and value

 

[Walter Rego]

I think Steelslaver is about right or even a bit low on the Model 53. If your son-in-law is able to find the original tools for that gun, which would include the sight adjustment tool with the tapered and not hollow ground tip, and the unique tapered cotton chamber mop you can add another $100. Have him look for the owners manual too.

 

[22hipower]

Agree with the minimum $1k for the 25. The 53 package, if a 4 screw, which I suspect it is, might be closer to $2k especially if the 22LR cylinder has the SN stamped on it and the box has the SN in grease pencil. People here would love to see both of them offered on the Classified side of the Forum. Nice guns, good luck.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

 

[Skyhunter]

Thanks to all for your insight and responses.
I hope to spend New Year's with daughter and family. if so, I'll be able to gather some better photos and hopefully more info on these revolvers (and tools, paperwork, etc.!).

WYT-P
Skyhunter

 

[jcelect]

Mod 53?

Read this post before you place a value on the mod 53! If the barrel is shot out on the 53(barrel erosion of the breech) the gun will not command a high price! When we buy a 53 we want to see a very close pic of the barrel breech!
4 Inch 4 Screw Model 53
jcelect

 

[bob richardson]

53 forcing cone erosion

Does some forcing cone erosion on a 53 really make the barrel "shot out"? I understand the thought process of seeing the erosion as undesirable but "shot out"? I don't really see accuracy issues with the flame cutting.The bullet entering the barrel before engaging the rifling doesn't seem to me anyway like a huge issue if there's flame cutting on the forcing cone.I'm no expert by any means but interested in other's opinions on this.Thanks

 

[BC38]

Does some forcing cone erosion on a 53 really make the barrel "shot out"? I understand the thought process of seeing the erosion as undesirable but "shot out"? I don't really see accuracy issues with the flame cutting.The bullet entering the barrel before engaging the rifling doesn't seem to me anyway like a huge issue if there's flame cutting on the forcing cone.I'm no expert by any means but interested in other's opinions on this.Thanks

I was thinking the same thing. The erosion seems to be only to the sharp face-edge of the forcing cone. Surely it doesn't extend any real distance down the barrel?

Or is it a case of the forcing cone erosion only shows up after tens of thousands of rounds and by then the rifling is shot out as well?

 

[jcelect]

Erosion!

Barrel erosion basically makes the barrel to cylinder gap larger. This allows more gases to escape, and it allows the bullet to enter the forcing cone at an unknown angle(possibly). Below are pics of erosion in different stages.

With factory ammo, picture #1 is probably 100rds or less, #2 is probably <500rds, and #3 & #4 are 1K-10K rds! #4 is MY SHOOTER 6"! The accuracy suffers out at 100yds and beyond. This round was developed by Remington/S&W to push a 40gr bullet at 2400fps out of a revolver for the varmint hunters! In the 60s many of these guns were sent back to the factory for new barrels because of erosion which made accuracy suffer at a distance! No new barrels today! Enjoy the guns we have today by shooting reduced loads and better powders!
IMHO-jcelect

 

[Hair Trigger]

The 45 colt is a model 25-5 or later and does not appear to have a barrel pin. This means it likely has correct sized cylinder throats unlike those before did not usually have. A 95% gun would be north of $1000

I agree with steelslaver, it's at least a late model dash-5, the barrel pin was dropped in 1982. Coincidentally, I just picked up a pinned M25-5 today at a gun show; 3T configuration, nickel plated, 4" barrel and at least a 95% finish and mechanicals. I gave $1250 for it after some serious dickering. No box, accessories or paperwork. The SN puts it around 1980, maybe 1981. I haven't posted a thread yet, but will post pictures when I do.

 

[BC38]

Barrel erosion basically makes the barrel to cylinder gap larger. This allows more gases to escape, and it allows the bullet to enter the forcing cone at an unknown angle(possibly). Below are pics of erosion in different stages.
<pics deleted>
With factory ammo, picture #1 is probably 100rds or less, #2 is probably <500rds, and #3 & #4 are 1K-10K rds! #4 is MY SHOOTER 6"! The accuracy suffers out at 100yds and beyond. This round was developed by Remington/S&W to push a 40gr bullet at 2400fps out of a revolver for the varmint hunters! In the 60s many of these guns were sent back to the factory for new barrels because of erosion which made accuracy suffer at a distance! No new barrels today! Enjoy the guns we have today by shooting reduced loads and better powders!
IMHO-jcelect

So essentially what you are saying is that it isn't really advisable to shoot ANY factory ammo, because even a couple of boxes worth will do damage?

FWIW, other than a little missing bluing I don't see any erosion in picture 1 - maybe the photo just isn't high enough resolution.

 

[jcelect]

So essentially what you are saying is that it isn't really advisable to shoot ANY factory ammo, because even a couple of boxes worth will do damage?

FWIW, other than a little missing bluing I don't see any erosion in picture 1 - maybe it just isn't high enough resolution.

I have shot the mod 53 for years, but I reload! The mod 53 had more problems than barrel erosion! When shooting you needed to keep your chambers and ammo VERY clean(no oil, no dust, no grease, etc)! S&W provided a tapered swab with the later mod 53s and shooters would carry lighter fluid, alcohol, or other degreasing agents to the range with them to swab the chambers after EVERY round of firing. If they didn't do this the fired rounds would back out of the chamber against the recoil shield and tie up the cylinder after 4-5 rds. I reload, using different powders, and keeping the speed below 1900FPS. I also tumble the brass to a clean shinny finish(CLEAN) before starting!
You mentioned pic #1! Your correct, it should have been taken closer and probably a higher resolution, it's not my picture. Look very close and at about the 8 o'clock position you will see a bright reflection! This reflection is from a very narrow flat on the edge of the barrel. A new barrel is a square machined edge, no reflection! Again, you are correct! Stay away from factory Remington ammo, it's just too hot! Leave the factory ammo to the ammo collectors or, if you buy it cheap, pull it apart, reuse the components, and reduce the loading! You will end up with fired brass on your way to reloading.
Sorry for the long post but this is one man's opinion, from experience, of buying mod 53s only to find barrel erosion and then trying to peddle them without losing too much money! A couple of my favorite!

jcelect

 

[Walter Rego]

For those that reload for the .22 Magnum (.22 Jet), does powder choice have a big effect upon the erosion ?

In other words, does avoiding Ball powders help, or are there cooler burning powders available now that will achieve top velocity that weren't available 50 years ago that are recommended ? Or is it simply the pressure of the round that does the damage ?

For now I have a pretty good supply of the Privi Partisan (PPI) ammo for my Model 53 and I believe it is not as hot as the old Remington or Peters ammo although I have not seen any chronograph results. And I have a small hoard of the old Hornady 40 grain .222" bullets for when I do need to start handloading. But for powder ?

 

[GM4spd]

Here is another pic of throat destruction in a Model 53. I know nothing about it’s effect on accuracy but it doesn’t help the aesthetics of the gun. I wonder what the erosion does to the velocity of the bullet?

 

[jcelect]

For those that reload for the .22 Magnum (.22 Jet), does powder choice have a big effect upon the erosion ?

In other words, does avoiding Ball powders help, or are there cooler burning powders available now that will achieve top velocity that weren't available 50 years ago that are recommended ? Or is it simply the pressure of the round that does the damage ?

For now I have a pretty good supply of the Privi Partisan (PPI) ammo for my Model 53 and I believe it is not as hot as the old Remington or Peters ammo although I have not seen any chronograph results. And I have a small hoard of the old Hornady 40 grain .222" bullets for when I do need to start handloading. But for powder ?

When cutting metal with a torch, you must heat the metal to the melting point and then hit the heated area with a blast of air/oxygen! In a gun this action takes place in a split second! Also, we must consider the "sand blasting" effect the unburnt powder has on the barrel breech when the bullet enters the barrel! People think the flash out of the barrel muzzle is "cool"! That flash is produced by unburnt powder exiting the barrel and serves no useful purpose! This would be the same unburnt powder that passed the BC gap with hot gasses! I have experimented with many powders, with a load from a book, in the Jet but always tried to use those that produce the least "blast" out the end and stay below the 1900FPS range!
IMHO - jcelect

 

[BC38]

When cutting metal with a torch, you must heat the metal to the melting point and then hit the heated area with a blast of air/oxygen! In a gun this action takes place in a split second! Also, we must consider the "sand blasting" effect the unburnt powder has on the barrel breech when the bullet enters the barrel! People think the flash out of the barrel muzzle is "cool"! That flash is produced by unburnt powder exiting the barrel and serves no useful purpose! This would be the same unburnt powder that passed the BC gap with hot gasses! I have experimented with many powders, with a load from a book, in the Jet but always tried to use those that produce the least "blast" out the end and stay below the 1900FPS range!
IMHO - jcelect

Which ones would you recommend that specifically meet those criteria?

 

[S.B.]

The 45 colt is a model 25-5 or later and does not appear to have a barrel pin. This means it likely has correct sized cylinder throats unlike those before did not usually have. A 95% gun would be north of $1000

The 6" model 53. Having the 22lr cylinder is huge. That cylinder alone would bring over $500. The inserts also add over $100 to the package. Probably $1500 bottom dollar.

Those estimates are on the low sell it now side IMHO if guns are as described.

Check on the frame behind where the yoke closes to get the dash numbers, that follow mdl numbers, as they will define a few things and value

I learned long ago that judging handgun by percentages is a futile activity. My 95% nay not be yours?
Steve