model 58 or 57?

[chrispbrown27]

I recently inherited the revolver from my Dad and have a few questions. I read something online that I believe identified the gun as a model 58, but I can't find the sight anymore and my memory is horrible. it is a .41 mag., blued., the barrel I believe is the 4" version, and it does not have ejectors on the cylinder(which is a bit of a pain).
I was also wondering does anyone make speed loaders for this gun? A couple of sights pop up if I do a search but I can't find the right model once I go to the site. Also, anyone know of a good slip on grip for the gun? I don't want to change the grips since they are original and it was my Dad's, but the grips are a bit small for me.
The gun has sat in the box it came in for quite a few years and there is some surface rust and fading of the bluing in some spots, do you guys think I should leave it as is or get it factory reblued?
This gun was my Dad's baby. It is a beautiful gun, but I honestly don't enjoy shooting it....call me a wuss, but it just isn't overly fun to shoot, especially without hearing protection.
I also inherited everything to reload for it, including a ton of bullets and brass. Just gotta get into that and try out what everyone says about reloading for it.
Thanks in advance for any advice
Chris

 

[snw19_357]

First off, Welcome to the forum Chris!

57 or 58 - does it have adjustable rear sight or fixed? 57 is adjustable, 58 fixed.

...does not have ejectors on the cylinder(which is a bit of a pain).

Huh, I'm not quite understanding this.

...I was also wondering does anyone make speed loaders for this gun?

I use HKS 57-M speedloaders for my 57 and 657 and they can be picked up numerous places.

I wouldn't have it refinished, it will reduce it's future value.

ALWAYS wear hearing protection or you'll end up as deaf as I am...

 

[sigp220.45]

Welcome to the forum!

Does it look like this?

If so its a Model 58.

Also, I probably wouldn't reblue it - whatever wear is there was probably put on it by your Dad, and you can't replace that. And there's no way you should be shooting it without hearing protection.

You can get speedloaders for it at this site:

http://www.firingpin.com/speed loaders.htm

The right one is the 57-M.

Congratulations on having a great gun.

 

[chrispbrown27]

It has fixed sights so that answers that question. As far as the ejectors thing goes I thought I had read that the 57 had ejectors on it, and the terminology man be wrong I am not a handgun person really. What I was talking about was the plunger you push to eject the cartridges.
This gun will never be sold so the collectors value means nothing. The sentimental value is much higher than anyone could ever offer. What I want is to get the gun back in the condition it was when my Dad bought it. So to be honest I think I will eventually have it reblued. Like I said this was my Dad's baby and it's what he would want.
To the second poster, what is the black part on the front of the grip on that gun? Like I said I would like a slip on grip or something to thicken up the grips, I think it will make it more comfortable to shoot.
As far as hearing goes, it was a quick trip just to shoot the gun a time or two. I know I should wear the protection, should have years ago.
Chris

 

[chrispbrown27]

I had never thought about the wear being from my Dad and being something that I can't replace. Thank you.
Chris

 

[mdwiese]

The small black piece on the front of the grip frame is called a Tyler T grip.

Here is a link to their website.

Tyler Manufacturing and Distribution Company, Inc

The M 58 should have the same cartridge ejection as a M 57.
Only difference between the two models would be fixed sights for the M 58, and adjustable sights for the M 57.

 

[snw19_357]

Good, almost all here will applaud you for not getting rid of it, for the reasons you stated.

So your 58 is missing the plunger (ejector rod)? Which is under the barrel in sigp220.45's picture. That would make it difficult to remove the spent casings! They can be easily purchased and installed but there are other parts in there too that may be missing. Including the center pin which is what locks the cylinder into the frame. It would be almost impossible (and unsafe) to fire without one.

I was going to say that if you're going to have it refinished by S&W, they can give it the once over for you and replace the parts that are missing but now I see you're not going to.

The black part in sigp220.45's picture is a Tyler T-grip

 

[Iggy]

The rod in the center of the cylinder is the ejector. With the cylinder open, push it in and it will eject all of the cases at once.

I have a 58 that I carried for years as a LEO. It shows a lot of holster wear and ain't purty no more, but I wouldn't change a thing.

I wouldn't have it refinished as the gun and I earned our dents and scars and wear them proudly.

Clean the gun well and see how it cleans up. You may be surprised at the results. If they don't satisfy you, then you could have it re-blued by S&W and cause the least decrease in value.

.41 mag is a pleasant and versatile gun if you reload.

You can load it down to a pleasant plinking level or take it up to barn burning capabilities. It sounds like you have all equipment and supplies needed to do so.

I suspect by learning to reload, you would be exploring a path that your Dad enjoyed in keeping that old Smith running.

Give it a try.

I was in a couple of gun squabbles inside a building and outside. I didn't hear the guns at the time, but now I listen to the cicada's singing 24 hours a day.

Do not shoot any gun without hearing protection if you can prevent it.

 

[chrispbrown27]

Nothing is missing from the gun so maybe I missed the ejector. Like I said I'm not a handgun ferson, give me a shotgun or most rifles and I can take em apart with my eyes closed, ha ha. The only handgun I've ever owned was a s&w .357. Highway patrolman or something like that. The gun is complete. The wear is on the reciever and really isn't even as bad as the one above. The handloading is definately something I'm going to get into.
Does the tyler t grip improve control? The last time I shot it the temp. outside was well into the 90's and between the sweat and the recoil I couldn't hold the gun down, which probably has a lot to do with the fact I didn't like to shoot it. I was thinking something that would give me a better grip would help.
Chris

 

[snw19_357]

You could always try target grips or aftermarket rubber ones like these Hogue's on one of my Higway Patrolman.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Welcome to the forum!

You may want to try some factory target style grips, Hogue monogrips, etc. A lot of guys here don't like the idea of putting rubber on their gun (Hogues), but it all comes down to what is best for you, not us. The Hogues are the best feeling grips made in my opionion, and you can get them in wood as well as rubber. Their rubber is very soft feeling BTW.

Besides the fixed sights, the 57 has an enclosed ejector rod, which you can see in my photo.

These are factory original targets, (not the ones made today) on my 57. I hope this helps.

 

[flop-shank]

If you find the gun small for your hands, Chris, a T-grip will probably help and not polute the original old school look of the gun.

Keep in mind that handloading a .41 magnum can give you loads that are mild, wild or anything in between.

I'm sorry to hear that you lost your father, Chris. My vote is in the "treat the gun with TLC, but leave the finish the way he did" catagory. By TLC I don't mean don't shoot it, just keep it clean and properly oiled.

As Iggy said, hearing protection is not optional. Being a magnum revolver shooter, I've found that I need to wear plugs and muffs at the same time with high pressure loads.

Welcome to the forum. There are a ton of great guys and gals here who will be more than happy to answer your questions, so stick around.

 

[MaineProbation]

Nice 58 Iggy, Why Wide and Wide on a duty gun?

I like that 58. Since wide trigger and wide hammer were not standard on a 58, I was wondering just why you put them on a duty gun.

 

[Iggy]

Back when an airline ticket around the world cost $5.00, I couldn't afford one to get out of sight on a cop's salary.
A guy gave me a target hammer and trigger, that was the only way I could have ever got them back then. I tried them and liked them.

I now have them on most of my revolvers. I guess it's kinda like my main squeeze, after 40 years I just got use to them.

 

[winchester1]

Chris,
I'm glad you have your Dad's gun and are interested in learning about it. The 58 is a fine handgun, your Dad had good taste. The refinishing question is one only you can answer, for what it's worth I would leave it as it is, the wear is from your Dad, and he personalized it for you. Thats something the factory can't redo. I think you would really like the T Grip, it will retain the original looks of your gun and provide a more "hand filling grip". If you go to order one, you want one for an N frame square butt, and you can get it in gloss black or flat black.
Enjoy your gun and welcome to the forum.

 

[ACP230]

My nickeled M58 was bought used and came with Pachmayr rubber grips.
They make shooting the .41 Magnum much more pleasant and all but three of my .41s have them installed.
Of those three, one has Hogue rubber grips. I find the Pachmayrs more to my liking than Hogues.

Duplicating the old Remington .41 "Police Load" with a 210 grain lead semiwadcutter at around 850 to 1,000 feet per second makes for an easier shooting .41. I use Unique most and have made some even lighter loads--but they felt like too little of a good thing.

My kids will have .41s that were owned by their old man. My father didn't shoot handguns much, and didn't own any. I am envious of those who have family heirloom guns like your M58.

 

[BUFF]

Your revolver, apparently, is a Model 58. Unless modified, it has what is called an "N frame, square butt."

There are literally hundreds of aftermarket and alternative grips for your sixgun. I, too, find the small S&W stocks, called "Magna's", uncomfortable for shooting any S&W that produces much recoil.

The current grips come off the frame easily. Find a quality screwdriver that fits the screw on one of the stock halves. Loosen the screw all the way, then turn it back in a turn or two. Carefully press the screw down back inside towards the other side of the gun. This will push the far side stock half most of the way off of the gun. Gently remove it, and then the grip screw, and set them aside. You can then push the remaining stock half off of the gun from the inside side of the grip half, using your thumb. Slip the grip screw through the hole it went through, and turn its threads into the threaded escutcheon on the other half. Put them in a clean, dry box with other valuables so you don't lose them. You can replace them back on the gun at any time.

NEVER try to pry grips from the gun's frames with a knife blade or screwdriver; you will damage them.

Look at the many grip styles displayed in photos of the threads on this sight and you will find something you like, something a bit bigger to fit your hand better. A set of neophrene or rubber grips made by a comany called Pachmayr won't set you back much. They were the most common replacement stock for S&W revolvers made during your dad's gun's period. You should look for the variation called the "Presentation"; or a similar one with finger grooves on the front is known as the "Gripper."

You will like shooting the big .41 a lot more with grips that fit your hand, good shooting eyeglasses and protection that covers or plugs your ears!

I bought my Model 58 in August, 1978, brand spanking new, for $183.78 out-the-door. I intended to have a talented local gunsmith, the late Robbert Ballard, mill the topstrap of the frame to accept the S&W click-adjustable rear sight assembly, fit a new S&W Target Model of 1955, .45 caliber, 6-1/2 inch barrel and then rechamber the long, .41 Magnum cylinder to .45 Colt. S&W hadn't made such a gun as a catalog item, and those of us big-bore fans that wanted S&W sixshooters chambered for .44 Special and .45 Colt were scrounging up parts and N frame .38 Specials and .357 Magnums to be transformed into dream guns spec'ed out to our desires and the limits of our pocketbooks. Ballard had previously made me an ersatz 1950 Target 4 incher with a new/old stock S&W barrel, a new Model 28 Highway Patrolman, rechambering the .357 chambers to .44 Special chambers, and doing enough cosmetic work to the gun to make all the surfaces of the high-gloss barrel, satin blasted frame and cylinder all the same shiny gloss while polishing the donor gun's action to a state of wonder. I wanted a deluxe, target-sighted, double action S&W revolver in .45 Colt, and having gathered the doner M-58, new .45 barrel and adjustable rear sight assembly, it was just a matter of saving up the gunsmith's fee for him to create such a masterpiece for me.

While saving, I shot the M-58 'as-is' a few boxes. Winchester's full-power 210 grain JSP and Remington-Peters 210 grain swaged SWC at about 3/5 power both shot very well in the gun.

I was very, very happy to see writings in the shooting press that S&W was about to produce and catalog at least one run of 10,000 N frame target sighted deluxe sixguns in .45 Colt. They arrived in late 1977, as commemoratives celebrating 125 years of S&W, but we knew standard target grade .45 Colts would be along soon.

I sat the Model 58 aside. It would be preserved in it's original state, not chopped up into something else.

I couldn't use it for work, as we we restricted to .38 Special and .357 Magnum revolvers for on- and off-duty use. But this .41 looked to be quite the heavy duty brawler and I have remained very fond of having and shooting it on occassion.

Your father had excellent taste in picking out this rugged, no frills, no nonsense sixgun. For many years, the S&W Models 57 and 58 and their factory ammo were as close to ideal as possible for U.S. law enforcement belt guns for serious cops who gladly carried the extra weight in exchange for plenty of extra smack-down on the target when needed. Reliably expanding .357 Mag factory ammo was still a few years away and the .44 Magnum, as well as the 41 Magnum's JSP full-power loads, were too much of a good thing for most peace officer use. If more copshad been serious gunners than, the M-58 would have had a lot more commercial, and combat success

 

[Iggy]

One other point about your gun and the smaller grips.

IF the grips look similar to the ones on the gun in the picture in post #3, but have a more rounded profile at the bottom, they are called PC magna grips and are quite valuable in themselves.

Don't make the mistake of trading or misplacing them if you replace them with something else.
They add considerable value to your gun.

I destroyed mine back in 1966 to make the ones presently on my gun.

Those grips would probably be worth more than my gun now.

 

[chrispbrown27]

I had another chance to take the gun out and shoot it this past weekend and I must say I am hooked! Apparently Dad had some loads that were loaded considerably hotter than the others (possible handloads but I'm not sure). I had 6 rounds in and the first two were mild and all of a sudden that third round went off and there was the kick I had last time! The other loads were much more pleasant to shoot, and I can say I really enjoyed shooting it this time.
So, now I can keep the gun original and enjoy shooting it too. Now the hard part becomes finding .41 ammo around here. The local gunshop kinda chuckled at me when I asked if they had any on hand and basically said good luck. Guess I may have to get the handloading equiptment out sooner than I had wanted. Anyone know of a good beginners handloading book?
Chris

 

[snw19_357]

I recomend Lee Modern Reloading Second Edition. I covers the basics and beyond.