Model 60 vs 60LS Springs?

[K-MO]

My wife has a "Lady Smith" Model 60LS that is presently stored in a location away from our home. I took her to the range this past week and let her use my Model 60, as it is really the same firearm as her Lady Smith...or is it? She struggled with single action shooting because she found the hammer difficult to cock. When firing double action, she found the trigger pull very difficult as well. These are not issues with her 60LS, which leads me to ask...Does S & W use a lesser power main spring and trigger return spring on the Lady Smith? We will soon have both revolvers in the same place again, so I can compare, but I never considered this before my wife struggled so much with my 60. Anyone know? Are the springs lighter on the Lady Smith?

 

[uncleted327]

I don't believe S&W uses different springs in the two models. It is possible that the ones in the LS were swapped out if you weren't the first owner. If you were then there could be other variables at play, but aside from PC guns and some Pro Series I'm fairly confident they are all supposed to be the same.

 

[K-MO]

I don't believe S&W uses different springs in the two models.

Well, it could just be that her hand strength isn't what it once was. If it turns out that her issues persist with her 60LS, I'll have to pursue a spring kit for her revolver, which isn't the worst of all things.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 4th Ed., says the Model 60 Lady Smith variation has "a lightened trigger pull." What it doesn't say is how that's achieved. It also doesn't mention that for the Model 36 Lady Smith variation.

I have a fair few stainless and carbon steel Lady Smiths, along with a few score other Chiefs Specials that are not Lady Smiths. Overall I'd say the Ladies generally do have a better (lighter) trigger, but then, an often-fired non-Lady might achieve that same trigger simply through use. Each one is unique. It's hard to make a generalization with only two examples (i.e., your Model 60 and your Lady's Lady).

 

[K-MO]

The Standard Catalog of Smith & Wesson, 4th Ed., says the Model 60 Lady Smith variation has "a lightened trigger pull." What it doesn't say is how that's achieved.

Ah...The mystery is solved (at least for me). I went ahead and ordered the spring kit from M*CARBO. The installation for the two lighter springs only takes about 15 minutes, unless I spill out more parts from the revolver than I should. This install will cut the trigger pull by about 50%, which should be perfect for my wife (and me too since I'm getting old fast). After I modify my Model 60, I'll compare it to the factory setup on my wife's 60LS. I wonder if they will be similar?

Thanks, two-bit cowboy, for the information...

 

[Hapworth]

A 50% reduction in trigger pull on a J-frame is mighty optimistic; did the manufacturer advertise that?

If even near to it, I'd run a lot of factory fresh defense ammo to confirm reliability.

As for whether or not standard and Lady Smith variants differ in springs or trigger tuning -- there's been a lot of discussion and no one really knows...not even the big book, necessarily.

 

[K-MO]

A 50% reduction in trigger pull on a J-frame is mighty optimistic; did the manufacturer advertise that?

I quoted that from my aged memory, so accept it as approximate, not etched in stone. I'll tell you what, I'll return to this thread after I perform the install, and after I actually measure the trigger pull (before & after).

 

[scruffy]

Difficult to quantify without measurements from a repeatable trigger gauge. My 60-3 and M&P 340 are up around 12 lbs. (off the 10 lb. scale of my Timney). I shoot them just OK in double action. My 642PC with stock factory tuned action is 9 1/4 lbs. and is much easier for me to make consistent hits and to shoot better.

 

[GerSan69]

I just looked at their site... they claim "Reduce your S&W J Frame Trigger Pull by nearly 40%", so you were close.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

Does S & W use a lesser power main spring and trigger return spring on the Lady Smith?

The S&W Parts Catalog does not list a separate Lady Smith PN# for either the mainspring or rebound slide spring in a M60.

.

 

[K-MO]

Well, the speculation will end on Tuesday, if the COVID-riddled USPS can make my delivery of the spring kit. It appears we've attracted the interest of some heavy hitters here on this forum. So, I'll measure the difference, as promised, and even perform a comparative field test if my wife has fully recovered from last week.

 

[Jason Demond]

My experience with ladysmiths is limited to one gun, and that's a K frame. It was mentioned when I was researching the gun in some posts that they had light spring kits in them.

I know S&W has done this for PC guns instead of actual trigger work, but the model 65 was just as stiff and heavy as any other off the shelf K or L frame revolver, leading me to believe the spring kit talk is nothing but BS.

 

[K-MO]

OK, here we go...
The spring kit arrived today, 8/23/21, and these are installed. The double action pull was reduced from 11.13 lbs. to 7.35 lbs., a reduction of 34%.
The single action pull was reduced from 3.53 lbs. to 2.5 lbs., a reduction of 29%. Each measurement was based on an average of 5 pulls, 5 DA, and 5 SA. The big question now is, will my wife be able to operate her equipment?

 

[Protocall_Design]

The other big question is, will it still go bang every time, and what ammo are you using?

 

[armorer951]

Actually, the big question is, whether it will still be reliable or not.

 

[K-MO]

I used my own loads...fired 30 rounds...DA, SA, rapid, slow...the revolver, with new spring kit installed, performed flawlessly. I'm considering this project a success...

(By the way, my wife dry-fired this model 60, and had no trouble with it after the kit was installed. I'll get her out to try some live rounds soon.)

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Back when the Lady Smith revolvers first came out, my Chief was also part owner of a gun store and did some nice smithing. He had gone to S&W for one or more of their Armorer schools and told me back then that the LS revolvers had a lighter rebound (trigger return) spring. I don't recall if he commented about the main (hammer) spring.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

I went ahead and ordered the spring kit from M*CARBO.

...the revolver, with new spring kit installed, performed flawlessly.

Good to hear it was a success.

I got similar results using APEX's spring kit in my J-frames.

So exactly who's spring kit did you use?

.

 

[K-MO]

So exactly who's spring kit did you use?

The kit I used can be found here: S&W J Frame Trigger Job - Best S&W J Frame Accessories

 

[Hapworth]

Color me (cautiously) impressed if your trigger pull gauge is correct, and technique and measurements are on the mark.

A 7.3lbs trigger pull in a K-frame is generally the province of at least a little tuning beyond just a spring swap, and under 8lbs popping primers become increasingly iffy if you aren't rolling your own and tuning those rounds to the gun.

J-frames are notoriously tougher to tune in all these respects.

So if you got sub-8lbs pulls in a J-frame and consistent ignition (admittedly with re-loads) off of just a spring swap from a non-established brand (Wolff, Apex and Wilson being the big three, though it's possible the M Carbo kit is a re-branded one of these), I'd proceed with caution if this is a defense gun or might ever be.

And if all this sounds a bit like nay-saying, I apologize -- I don't mean for it to be. Should everything check out here to your satisfaction, that's what matters. The results are just more than a little unusual and I'm concerned about safety and dependability.