Model 60 with Missing Serial Number

[Sistema1927]

Even if the firearm has the serial number in several locations, having even one of them defaced or removed is bad ju ju.

Second Circuit defines “altered” serial number on a firearm for purposes of the four-level enhancement under U.S.S.G. SS 2K2.1(b)(4)(B) to mean that at least one serial number on the firearm is illegible to the naked eye. - Federal Defenders of New York Blog

 

[steelslaver]

Actually according to the ATF none of the serial numbers on the frame can legally be removed. IF there is one or more on the frame beside the one on the butt they would all be the legal serial numbers. I was informed this by email on questioning about serial numbers and other markings. Interesting enough you can remove import marking, but they would prefer you don't.

I see I basically just repeated the information in the post above

 

[Sevens]

I'll call nonsense on the "naked eye" part of the discussion, I've got at least one S&W Performance Center Limited pistol where they were dabbling in microstamping and you can definitely see exactly what they did and what it represents but using the naked eye, you'll need to line up a handful of people and get everyone's opinion on what their naked eye is able to read because it is hella small and done absolutely on purpose and it isn't altered in the slightest.

We also go off in to the weeds when we speak authoritatively about serial numbers in places other than the frame. Doing so suggests that it's deceptive or not legal to put a different barrel in to a Glock or perhaps a different slide, as Glock marks all three parts clearly with a matching serial number on a new production handgun.

I suggest there may be too much supposition.

 

[Sevens]

I would guess standardization.

...and shown clearly in post 7 with multiple pictures that at one time, Smith & Wesson doesn't agree with standardization.

 

[steelslaver]

The barrel, slide and other various other pieces are not the frame or receiver and not relevant. The ATF states the frame or the receiver as per Gun Control Act of 1968 PDF - Google Search

1230 deals with serial numbers. One of the statements is can not be readily removed, as barrels and slides are readily removed they hardly fit the bill. Also, parts are include in other portion of the law

 

[tjpopkin]

I had a Model 60 2" stolen....ADA4392. It went missing when my dad died.
I still have the box.

 

[ks farmer]

The FBI can recover. A ground off SN. It has to do with change in the monocular structure of the steel where the SN was originally before removing. Any way the gun is illegal as it stands.

 

[NYlakesider]

The barrel, slide and other various other pieces are not the frame or receiver and not relevant. The ATF states the frame or the receiver

The serial number of my take down Browning .22 auto rifle is on the barrel. I bought the gun new in the early 1960s.

Of course years back some guns had no serial number at all!

 

[steelslaver]

22s manufactured before 1968 without serial numbers are grandfathered from needing a serial number. I have 2 of them.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

My 642 has the Serial Number on the Left side of the Frame under the Cylinder.

 

[kwill1911]

 

[SmithNut]

22s manufactured before 1968 without serial numbers are grandfathered from needing a serial number. I have 2 of them.

Not just .22's, I have seen a Savage 340, magazine fed bolt gun, chambered in 30-30 that was also manufactured sans serial number.

 

[murphydog]

Got in touch with law enforcement they are checking it out and will give me an update when they get the results back. thanks guys for the help.

Sorry for your troubles. If it turns out the model 60 is not legal, you can take all the parts off down to the bare frame and just turn that in. If you ever find a bare legal model 60 frame, instant complete gun.

 

[jframejoey]

Like SmithNut I also have a .30-30 Savage 340 made sans serial number.

 

[2152hq]

Not just .22's, I have seen a Savage 340, magazine fed bolt gun, chambered in 30-30 that was also manufactured sans serial number.

Many of the FN mfg Browning semi auto rifles have their ser# stamped on the bbl. In Europe, many countries count the Bbl as the control part,,as in the USA the Frame is the control part (firearm).
Some of the Browning T-bolt rifles are also ser#'d on the bbl as well.

Before GCA 68, there was no regulation that said that cal .22rf long guns nor any shotguns had to have a mfg'rs ser# imprinted on them.
Some mfg'rs did number them, or some of their production,,some didn't number any of them.
Handguns regardless of caliber & center fire rifles were to be ser#'d .

GCA68 changed the regs and it then demanded that the .22rf cal long guns and all shotguns also be ser#'d as well.

So that's where the common slightly misleading statement comes from that usually states something like 'With the enactment of the GCA68 all firearms were required to be ser#'d.'

That's true,,but the rest of that unsaid is that before GCA68, all handguns and centerfire long guns were already required to be ser#'d.

There were several instances of mfg'rs not ser#ing some of their center fire rifle production in the pre-68 days.
Savage didn't ser# quite a number of the early production Model 219 break open rifles. The 22H/30-30 switch bbl rifle.
I've got one here right now for repair in 22Hornet.
That may have had something to do with them using the same action on their Model 220 shotgun,,a gun which would not have needed to be ser#'d.
Just a guess though.
The Savage Model 340 escaped w/some being unser#'d as well.That one just an oops I'd guess.

Marlin sent the first 4000+ Levermatic rifles in center fire form (256Win Mag) out the door w/o ser#'s in the mid 60's.
Marlin had orig ser#'d the earlier production .22rf Levermatic rifle,,then to save 3cents per rifle in labor,,stopped ser#'g them.
This was a perfectly legal move as it being pre-1968,,no ser# was necessary on a cal .22rf long gun.

Then a couple yrs later the centerfire Levermatic came out (64/65).
The production line made no room for the recv'rs to be ser#'d,,,likely since they had not ser#'d the other levermatics (22rf) they had been making for quite some time.

So as a result and until such time that someone finally spotted the issue,,4000+ unser#d 256WinMag Levermatics (mod62?) went out into the world.

The Treasury Dept was not happy (they were the Federal Firearms enforcement agency of the day pre-68)
But the 'fix' was to allow Marlin to issue a continuing recall on those unser#d rifles for the owners to vol return them to the factory for numbering,,at Marlins cost of course.
...Sure,,I'll send it right in...

Very few ever came back voluntarily. A few got stamped that happened to come in for repair.
Imagine the owner getting the repaired rifle back with a hand wacked thru the bluing new ser# on the left front of the frame.
We had a BATF (post 68) log for just the recalled Levermatics and their new ser#'s in the Repair Dept. It was not a long list.

 

[Inusuit]

The letter in post 31 clears up a lot of erroneous information floating around on the internet.

 

[Beemerguy53]

Several years ago I engaged a local gunsmith to refinish a Browning High Power with Cerakote. As you might be aware, the serial number on the BHP is stamped lightly on the frontstrap. When I picked it up a year later and took it home, I was horrified to realize that the serial number was no longer visible.

The gunsmith was no help at all; he denied obliterating the serial number, told me it was just covered by the new Cerakoting, and suggested I just shoot the pistol and enjoy it.

Realizing that I was, at that moment, in blatant violation of federal law, I decided to 'fess up to Uncle Sam immediately. I emailed my local ATF Field Office that evening, and advised them of the situation.

A few days later, an Intelligence Specialist from ATF contacted me, and we met so she could examine the BHP. I was fully prepared to surrender it to her at that time, but she told me that wasn't necessary. She took photos of it, and advised she would get back to me after consulting with her boss.

About a week later, she emailed me with an offer: ATF would assign a new serial number to the pistol, I would have that new serial number engraved on it per ATF's regulations, she would confirm the work had been done, and the matter would be closed. And that's exactly how the situation was resolved.

I was told by a relative who is a federal LE agent that it was probably my self-reporting, my willingness to be cooperative, and my lack of criminal intent, that tipped the scales in my favor, for they surely had the right to seize the pistol.

 

[Zipdog]

Sorry for your troubles. If it turns out the model 60 is not legal, you can take all the parts off down to the bare frame and just turn that in. If you ever find a bare legal model 60 frame, instant complete gun.

So if someone steals your car only the dashboard is considered stolen since that is where the VIN number is?

 

[ACORN]

I’m curious as to where the OP obtained this M60? Bought new, used, inherited, found?

 

[murphydog]

So if someone steals your car only the dashboard is considered stolen since that is where the VIN number is?

I think the rules for firearms and vehicles may be a little different.

Just as with older guns, you may be able to register and insure an antique or vintage car that did not have a VIN. Wouldn’t want to go through that process with a newer car that came with a VIN, with or without the dashboard. And just maybe that number is stamped or recorded elsewhere in the vehicle, like in the OBD.