Model 686 v. 1911

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Hello all. This is my first post and I am new to the forum. I purchased my first handgun last September, it is a S&W Model 442, and I really enjoy shooting it. I get out every week, when I am lucky, and every other week pretty reliably. Presently, I am saving up some money to make a new acquisition.

I really do enjoy my 442 and the ease of use of the revolver platform. I want a S&W Model 686+ with a 4" barrel but am also really intruguied by the 1911 platform. I have looked at a couple of Springfield Armory 1911's but would appreciate any wisdom about S&W 1911 options and your opinion on which of the two you would select as a second pistol.
 
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This is just my opinion and experience.

Unless you are willing to fork out BIG BUCKS ($2000+) for a custom 1911 I would go with the 686. The 1911 platform just does not lend itself well to mass production. Now when a 1911 is built by a skilled craftsman you can get no better. You do pay for it though.
 
Philo, Welcome to the FORUM! I have a 586 4" no dash. A beautiful Smith! Accurate even in my hands. How much are you going to pay for a 1911 that will match the accuracy and quality? I personally just shoot revolvers better. Just my experience and opinion. Good luck shopping. There are some good deals out there. Bob
 
The best advice I ever heard on 1911's is this, if you are the kind of guy who fixes his own mowers, services his own car etc, there is no better gun out there than the 1911. If you are not, don't buy one. They need to be maintained to a much higher standard than a revolver.

That said the higher end Springfield TRP's and the semi-custom Fusion Firearms guns are the best buys out there in my opinion.

Just like the lock on S&W guns creates debate, my opinion is, I would never consider buying a gun that has a Swartz safety on it, others feel differently. They are prone to failure and not needed since the advent of the titanium firing pin.

JMO
 
This is just my opinion and experience.

Unless you are willing to fork out BIG BUCKS ($2000+) for a custom 1911 I would go with the 686. The 1911 platform just does not lend itself well to mass production. Now when a 1911 is built by a skilled craftsman you can get no better. You do pay for it though.

I really have to disagree with you. Sure, 1911s can be, and sometimes are, sloppily built. But today we have more ready-to run out-of-the-box 1911s available than ever before. The S&W is one, the Ruger another, and Kimbers, and Springfields. And at the low-price end, I have 2 RIA pistols, a full-size 1911 and an Officer's, and both are flawless, accurate performers, with less than $900 spent on the 2 of them.

Nothing wrong with a 686, of course; but if a 1911 floats your boat, there are plenty of choices.
 
Well, I have both - a 686 and a S&W1911 E Series.

Would not want to have to make a choice. They both shoot great and look great.

They are, obviously, entirely different platforms, which makes comparisons difficult.

I keep the 1911 for home protection; my wife prefers the 686.

I shoot both about equally well (or poorly, depending on your perspective) so that's no basis for comparison.

The 1911 can hold 2 more rounds :D

I guess I'm no help at all :eek:
 
Welcome to the forum! IMO I would look at the 3rd Gen S&W 4506,4513 if I was looking for a semi auto 45. These could cost you less and be more reliable tham a moderate priced 1911. And you can not go wrong with any 686.
 
This is just my opinion and experience.

Unless you are willing to fork out BIG BUCKS ($2000+) for a custom 1911 I would go with the 686. The 1911 platform just does not lend itself well to mass production. Now when a 1911 is built by a skilled craftsman you can get no better. You do pay for it though.

That may have before you were in basic but a lot has changed since then. An out of the box SW1911 is both accurate and reliable.
 
Every American should own a 1911 and a .357 Magnum wheelgun. This is one of those Universal Truths.;)

I disagree strongly with the notion that you need to spend big bucks to get a decent 1911. I also disagree that you need to be an amateur gunsmith to have fun with them. I would maybe even go so far as to thoughtfully fondle my BS flag & consider throwing it high & far. :eek:

There is a plethora of perfectly servicable 1911s available in a wide range of price points with just about any combination of features you might be looking for from a number of manufacturers both foreign and domestic. You can buy a basic GI & do with it what you will or buy a gun with the features you want for a lot less than it would cost to have a 'smith install them.

Some might require a twiddle or a tweak but generally you can make the choice of how involved you want to get with any molestation. There is a wealth of information available for free on the care & feeding of 1911s. Most will tell you, though, that anything that involves a Dremel is probably not a good idea.
 
For the cash I spend this the way I go.
Revolver = Smith
1911 = Kimber
If you are willing to spend $2K+ there are other options. But not needed to get a super reliable very accurate hand gun.
 
I love my 686 but the 1911 will always be my favorite platform
My no dash 686
HPIM0566.jpg

My kimbers. My TLE .45 and my Aegis 9mm/38super convertible.
kimbers1.jpg
 
Since you have a 442, you could use the same ammo in a 686. Good, used 686's are not that hard to find if you are on a budget or don't like the lock. They are easier to care for than a 1911 in that you don't have to tear the revolver apart to clean it and worry about scratching the frame when you reassemble it. The 686 has a lot of versatility when it comes to ammo; you can use light wadcutters for a fun day at the range up to heavy, powerful .357s for hunting. My 686 no-dash is one of my most accurate handguns and enjoyable to shoot, even with magnums. :cool:
The S&W 1911s are also excellent guns, overall. My wife "appropriated" my first one because she likes it so much, so I had to buy another one for myself (model 108282), and then I picked up a 4.25" 1911PD for carry. None of them have ever given a lick of trouble, with the exception of not functioning well with Magtech ammo (which seems to be a theme with all of my semi-autos). My latest SW1911 is a Pro Series Compact (Lew Horton edition) and it just came back from warranty repair with a new extractor spring, adjusted extractor, and adjusted slide to barrel fit. I haven't had a chance to test fire it yet, so I'm not sure if the extraction issues have been resolved. Maybe I will get to the range this weekend.
BTW, while S&W's firing pin block does operate from the grip safety, it is not a true Swartz system, but has a much more robust lever than the Swartz system's little pin/post. The Swartz's pin can be sheared off if you try to force the slide back onto the pistol during reassembly while holding down the grip safety, while the S&W lever will just mark up the back of the slide. The new E-series S&W's don't have the firing pin block at all, nor does/did the S&W 1911TFP (if they are still making it).
If you are mechanically inclined, the 1911 is not a bad platform, you just have to learn its quirks.

For carry, the 1911 is slightly easier to conceal, but I find the 686 more comfortable to carry IWB for some reason.

If I had to choose between the two platforms, I would stick with my 686 for the simplicity and versatility. JMO
 
This is just my opinion and experience.

Unless you are willing to fork out BIG BUCKS ($2000+) for a custom 1911 I would go with the 686. The 1911 platform just does not lend itself well to mass production. Now when a 1911 is built by a skilled craftsman you can get no better. You do pay for it though.

Really???????? What dimension did you pick that bit of wisdom from. I have a Ruger SR1911 with 800 rounds downrange at this point without one single malfunction. Of that total 100 rounds have been the 230 grain Speer Gold Dots and it like these hollowpoints just fine.

As for the negatives.

A 1911 "pro" would say the slide to frame fit is too loose. Personally I regard the fit between slide and frame as a "Service" fit, which means that function trumps accuracy and good reliable function normally requires a somewhat "loose" fit. I'm also of the opinion that the frame to slide fit isn't as nearly as critical as some state, if you are shooting by the sights it's the barrel to slide fit that is critical, the frame only comes into play when the gun is clamped in a shooting vise. From a benchrest it'll group between 2 and 2 1/2 inches at 25 yards depending on what I'm shooting, seems to really like those Gold Dots and it's a real shame they are nearly a buck a round. Basically, the SR1911 is a good Combat pistol, which is what John Browning intended.

The trigger is a bit creepy when compared to the single action trigger on a S&W revolver. For about 100 dollars I can get Wilson Combat's hammer and sear and that will clean up the trigger a good bit.

The Ruger magazines have rather ragged feed lips. This make them a bit more difficult to load and the gouge up the brass more than I would like to see. The solution here is to stuff the Ruger magazines in a drawer and pick up some Wilson Combat magazines, my favorite is the 47D.

The positives. First, it's a VERY well balanced package. You get features that are today considered "essential" but none of the fluff that comes with the high priced 1911's. Not really a fan of the ambi safeties, they make tearing the gun down a lot more difficult and that hollow cross shaft has been known to break. However I do like an extended safety and the one on the Ruger is perfect for size. I also like the sights, big white dots may be a bit generic but for old farts they are MUCH easier to see than the original service sights on a 1911. The extended mag release is IMO just slightly into the fluff category but it's been secure while carrying the pistol so I won't complain about it. The Ruger SR1911 is a Series 70 design, which means that it's MUCH easier to tune and somewhat easier to work on. BTW, Ruger uses a Titanium firing pin and robust firing pin spring to insure it's "drop safe" and it's met California's standard for drop safety. Finally, it's a series 70 1911, one of the easiest firearms on the planet to work on or customize.

BTW, the selling price for the SR1911 can range from about 650 dollars up to 800, so it's wise to shop around if possible. However, the SR1911 is currently in short supply so those who want one can end up paying a premium to actually get one.

Now concerning on which to choose, a 686 or a 1911. That is such a difficult question to answer the only suggestion I can make is to get both. If you just can't afford both at this time then I would recomend the 1911. As for why, it's all about ammo cost and availability. You can get the Federal Champion 45ACP for 17.97 per box at Walmart. In contrast the Walmarts in my area haven't had ANY 38 spl for about 3 years now and the 357 Magnum Federal Champion is something like 24 dollars a box. Bascially, for me it's cheaper to shoot the 45ACP. BTW, if you get a 625 instead of the 686 you get a great revolver in 45ACP, a bit of having your cake and eating it too.
 
They're completely different guns. Both great in their own right. Pick whichever you prefer. There really is no wrong answer here.

I'll agree with those who state an expensive 1911 is not needed nor is a handy man's degree.

I have a Springfield 1911 that hasn't been shot since I got my 686, fwtw. But that's purely because of personal preference.

Buy your favorite of the two and don't look back, unless that is to buy the other later. ;-)
 
I have both as well and a few other brands of auto-pistols. The auto's hide better, even the 1911...it likes to ride flat, you get the picture. However, IMHO from the standpoint of safety, a wheel-gun always comes down on the safer side to me. No fumbling with a magazine, no racking a slide and less of a chance for accidental discharge. The revolver just ain't going to fire unless you pull the trigger, unless somebody stole the hammer-block out of it.

I'm on the fence as far as the reliability and function of either and am not going to take sides other than to say that you can get a good 1911 for well under $1500 and darn close to $1,000. If you're going to get an auto-pistol....for goodness sakes, get a 1911 and stay away from the plastic, aluminum, Johnny-come-lately junk.
 
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Buy a 1911. You already have a revolver. If you don't like it sell it and buy another revolver. I own both and each has it's place. Revolvers are the best platform for defense, they always work. A 1911 is the best platform for a range gun. They don't always work but when they do the fun factor is x2. Buy one to see for yourself.

Buyer's guide for all you 1911 addicts...

Jim
 
We are talking two completely different pistols here and both are icons and vastly different. I love my S&W revolvers and I shoot them at every range session I have but the 1911 is a great pistol. If you buy a name brand 1911 it will be a great shooter and you should have no problems with them. I've had them and shot them for over 40 years and I've never had one fail to go bang and eject.

If it came down to tough times and I had to choose between the two I've have a 1911 everytime. Fortunately it would be neither in really tough times it would be a Sig P226 with 18 rounds of 9mm but thats just me. My back up would be a Model 18 with a whole bag of 22LR shells.
 
I knew my comments would start a bit of controversy. I stand by them though. I have owned Colts, Springfields, Kimber, S&W, Les Baer and Nighthawk Custom 1911's. The only one one that worked flawlessly was the Nighthawk. Every other one had to have some work done to it. They all had failure to feeds or stovepipes or failure to extract at some point in their use. The Nighthawk never did though.
Obviously I am a fan of the 1911. But unless you are willing to train and learn lots of malfunction drills then I would not want to have my life depend on a 1911 unless it is a high end one and even then honestly a Glock or M&P Auto is really a better choice. Now if it going to be a range gun or fun gun then go for it.
 
If you want to know if your 1911 runs, 800 rounds doesn't mean much. IPSC shooters often times put 10,000 rounds through a gun in a year.

I Long ago gave up on cheap 1911's and since 1996 have been very happy with two Wilson Combat's. Shooting both action pistol games and for duty.

Stay away from Kimbers. Every man should own a nice 1911 some day, but most will not. Why spend $3500 on a shooter unless your going to shoot it a lot ?

An older production 686 is a far better value.

Emory
 
If you want to know if your 1911 runs, 800 rounds doesn't mean much. IPSC shooters often times put 10,000 rounds through a gun in a year.

I Long ago gave up on cheap 1911's and since 1996 have been very happy with two Wilson Combat's. Shooting both action pistol games and for duty.

Stay away from Kimbers. Every man should own a nice 1911 some day, but most will not. Why spend $3500 on a shooter unless your going to shoot it a lot ?

An older production 686 is a far better value.

Emory

I agree, well said Emory.
 
My 442 is the every day carry gun and it is plenty small to conceal nicely so that is not a consideration. Either the 686 or the 1911 would be a range/home gun. Any thoughts on the Ruger 1911 or the S&W? I have been really pleased with my current S&W and would not hesitate to purchase again. Also, how much for a good condition 686?
 
Hello all. This is my first post and I am new to the forum. I purchased my first handgun last September, it is a S&W Model 442, and I really enjoy shooting it. ................. I really do enjoy my 442 and the ease of use of the revolver platform.

With only 10 months under your belt as a new firearms owner, go with the platform you are currently learning on. Get the L-frame 686 and enjoy shooting it ... you'll notice a considerable difference between the 686 and the J-frame 442. Once you're comfortable with the L-frame 686, there will be plenty of time to learn the nuances of the 1911, as well as finding a cost effective "starter" gun.
 
I am new to handguns too! My first was a used High Standard Victor 22 - that is a blast to shoot. My second was a new 686 - I got it because I had read if you are going to have one gun it should be a 357 revolver - the S&W 686 stainless was an easy choice there. I am completely fascinated by that gun - I can't go to range without taking 50 rounds of 38 sp or 357 - just can't put it down. My third gun was a used Colt Gold Cup National Match 45 ACP. To me the Colt is the ultimate. Looks, feel, operation and accuracy. So in my opinion the question should be -- which one to buy before the other.

Again, I'm new to handguns - but on this road - you are going to run into the issue of reloading your own ammo. If you get into that, I've found that a hefty 357 / 38 special revolver like the 686 is the best gun to starting to learn reloading.
 
My 442 is the every day carry gun and it is plenty small to conceal nicely so that is not a consideration. Either the 686 or the 1911 would be a range/home gun. Any thoughts on the Ruger 1911 or the S&W? I have been really pleased with my current S&W and would not hesitate to purchase again. Also, how much for a good condition 686?

Stay away from the ruger. There is alot better stuff out there for the money than a cast frame warning sign that shoots.
 
This is just my opinion and experience.

Unless you are willing to fork out BIG BUCKS ($2000+) for a custom 1911 I would go with the 686. The 1911 platform just does not lend itself well to mass production. Now when a 1911 is built by a skilled craftsman you can get no better. You do pay for it though.

That TLE cost me $850 10 years ago. It has between 20-22k through it right now. Ive changed the recoil spring 8 times and kimber replaced the front sight when it quit glowing 3 years ago. In all those thousands of rounds of ammo I can count the number of failures on one hand and at least two of them were ammo related.;)
 
A Smith 686 and a decent (~900) 1911 will have about the same SA accuracy, but the 1911 will be 3x as accurate as the 686 fired DA. The 686 is nearly 1-1/2" thick and 10" long (4" barrel) compared to 0.9" thick and 6" long for a full-sized 1911. The weights are about the same - 40 oz. Capacity of a 1911 is 8+1 and can be reloaded in a fraction of the time of a revolver, unless you happen to be Jerry Mikulek.

A 1911 is much easier to carry concealed than a revolver, unless you need the extra power and penetration of a .357 magnum. A 230 grain +p is about 500 ft-lb, whereas .357 starts at over 600 ft-lb. Against a black bear or wild pig, I'd pick the .357 or larger, but the 1911 is sufficient against anything on two legs.

Unless you reload, it costs about the same to shoot each ($35-$45 /50). Most of reloading cost is in the bullets, the heavier the more expensive, so .357 costs about 40% less than .45 ACP to reload and you don't lose the brass in the gravel.

I have both, but unless I need the muzzle energy of .357, I would carry a 1911, more specifically a Commander, which weighs 9 oz less. West of the Rockies, I carry a .44 magnum in the woods, but would settle for .357 magnum east of the Mississippi. For home defense, I insist on tritium night sights. I put them on one 686, but it's a lot easier on a 1911. It's very hard to see black sights in dim light or against a dark background (don't BGs wear black).
 
This is just my opinion and experience.

Unless you are willing to fork out BIG BUCKS ($2000+) for a custom 1911 I would go with the 686. The 1911 platform just does not lend itself well to mass production. Now when a 1911 is built by a skilled craftsman you can get no better. You do pay for it though.

I don't disagree with what you said but I will say a well tuned 1911 has the best SA trigger out there period, is easy to break down and clean, and can have bullet proof and be reliable. The reliability doesn't come as much from the parts but the level of tuning you are willing to get. That sounds stange but it's true because some of those not as famous as Wilson and Les Bauer have some solid reliable 1911's for sale.

The S&W revolver whether it's 686 or any other large caliber handgun that you feel comfortable carrying and have tested would be a reliable pistol and will serve you well in self defense.
 
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