Model of 1899 Serial numbers

Whoever cleaned this one up never got higher than 40 grit! [All I can see is what looks like a very faint "38".] UPDATE- there are no caliber markings on bbl. There are patent dates on top of barrel
"...Wesson..Springfield.....July ? 84" Those too are very faint markings. This one was rode hard and put up wet, many times. It does letter as 5" target and shipped to Beakhart 1-24-1900. I'll try for photos tomorrow.
 
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Somewhere in the range of 6000 to 8600 is where I've come to believe the caliber roll marking started. I set the magnification to about 350, and I can see bits and pieces of stamping. I'm thinking this establishes the beginning of the caliber marking.

If you can get a clear high-resolution picture of that area of the barrel, you can send it
to me via email, at [email protected] . The resolution gets knocked way down when posting pictures on this sight. You might try rubbing some oil over the area, then wipe it lightly, so that some of the old stays in the surface depressions. A bright light might then highlight it.

In spite of the finish, that is a scarce gun. The number of 5" 1899 targets is probably less than 20, and maybe less than that.

Thanks for helping out here. I appreciate it.

Regards, Mike
 
Sent email with full size pic. It is so faint making it very difficult to see, or maybe I'm seeing things, lol! Surely someone has a decent 6k range 1899. Good luck with your research and thanks for sharing.
 
Here is a picture of the caliber roll marking on the 1899 Army contract guns.

mikepriwer-albums-mlp13-smoothbores-picture14882-caliber-roll-marking.jpg


Regards, Mike Priwer
 
Do the revolvers with the different caliber markings actually have different chamberings? The .38 Special should accept the .38 Long Colt ( .38 Gov't) cartridge.
 
But not vice-versa, at least for the S&Ws. The early Colt Army&Navy revolvers had bored-through chambers (no step for the case mouth), and allegedly even accepted .357 Magnum rounds. I suppose that for some unknown reason, the military specified that their S&Ws have the shorter chambers like the 1892, et. seq. Colts for the .38 LC cartridge only. But there is indeed no problem in firing .38 LC ammo in a .38 Special chamber.
 
Getting closer and closer

Here is the updated list, with the latest seven additions:

40* no caliber roll marking
225* no caliber roll marking
1254 no caliber roll marking
1404 no caliber roll marking
1949 no caliber roll marking
3497* no caliber roll marking
3695 no caliber roll marking
3733* no caliber roll marking
3865 no caliber roll marking
5001 - 6000 Navy Contract no caliber roll marking
6725* no caliber roll marking

7583* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
7719* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
7787* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
8636* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
8929* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
8939* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
10471 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
12286* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
13135* S&W 38 MIL (Army Contract)
14048* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
14669* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
14810 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
15330* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
16916* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
17085 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
17813* S&W 38 MIL Dec 1902 Probably Army contract over-run barrel
18291 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
19759* .38 S&W SPECIAL Feb 1902
20114 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG

Thanks for your help, Mike Priwer
 
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merl67:

Thanks for 7719 from an auction site. I added it to the most recent list .

So far, there are three distinct regions: no roll markings, the unknown region from 6700 to 7500, and the .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG marking. This data is telling me that somewhere in the unknown region is where the caliber roll marking starts. I expect that if we can gather enough observations in this region, we will see a mix of marked and unmarked guns. This is because the guns were not shipped in serial number order, and yet that is the key into this data. There is nothing I can do about this, but so far we've learned approximately where the caliber marking starts.

Its also interesting that the two "solid" not-marked and marked regions are, in fact, not jumbled up. This is telling me that we have not yet found the spot where the marking
starts. And, once it was started, we've not found any unmarked guns. This suggests that they did not have much of an inventory of unmarked barrels, once the marking started. Perhaps they went back and marked any unmarked barrels in inventory, once the order came down to mark them.

Thanks again, Mike Priwer
 
I just requested the info from S&W on mine, but if it helps, '38 s&w special ctg' and the serial is 3705. On the barrel behind the front sight, it does have: 'x'S.U.S.A. Patented
14.09.DEC.29 14
Cylinder is a 6 shot. I don't know if they tried to center the serial's over the grip pin, but mine is slightly off center.
 
mike75925 said:
I just requested the info from S&W on mine, but if it helps, '38 s&w special ctg' and the serial is 3705. On the barrel behind the front sight, it does have: 'x'S.U.S.A. Patented
14.09.DEC.29 14
Cylinder is a 6 shot. I don't know if they tried to center the serial's over the grip pin, but mine is slightly off center.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the forum I would start a new thread for your S&W as it is a different model than what is being discussed here.
 
As of July 12 2016

Here is the updated list, with the latest seven additions:

40* no caliber roll marking
225* no caliber roll marking
1254 no caliber roll marking
1404 no caliber roll marking
1949 no caliber roll marking
3450* no caliber roll marking
3497* no caliber roll marking
3695 no caliber roll marking
3733* no caliber roll marking
3865 no caliber roll marking
5001 - 6000 Navy Contract no caliber roll marking
5646 Navy Contract no caliber roll marking
6725* no caliber roll marking

7583* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
7719* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
7787* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
8636* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
8929* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
8939* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
10471 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
12286* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
13135* S&W 38 MIL (Army Contract)
14048* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
14669* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
14810 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
15330* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
16916* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
17085 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
17813* S&W 38 MIL Dec 1902 Probably Army contract over-run barrel
18291 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
19759* .38 S&W SPECIAL Feb 1902
20114 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG

Thanks for your help, Mike Priwer
 
As of July 13 2016

Here is the updated list, with the latest addition:

40* no caliber roll marking
225* no caliber roll marking
1254 no caliber roll marking
1404 no caliber roll marking
1949 no caliber roll marking
3450* no caliber roll marking
3497* no caliber roll marking
3695 no caliber roll marking
3733* no caliber roll marking
3865 no caliber roll marking
5001 - 6000 Navy Contract no caliber roll marking
5646 Navy Contract no caliber roll marking
6725* no caliber roll marking

7583* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
7719* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
7787* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
8636* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
8929* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
8939* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
10471 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
12286* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
13001 - 14000 Army Contract S&W 38 MIL
13135* S&W 38 MIL (Army Contract)
13262* S&W 38 MIL (Army Contract)
14048* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
14669* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
14810 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
15330* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
16916* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
17085 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
17813* S&W 38 MIL Dec 1902 Probably Army contract over-run barrel
18291 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
19759* .38 S&W SPECIAL Feb 1902
20114 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG

Thanks for your help, Mike Priwer
 
As of July 19 2016

Here is the updated list, with the latest 11 additions:

23* no caliber roll marking
40* no caliber roll marking
213* no caliber roll marking
225* no caliber roll marking
757* no caliber roll marking
1254 no caliber roll marking
1404 no caliber roll marking
1949 no caliber roll marking
3450* no caliber roll marking
3497* no caliber roll marking
3695 no caliber roll marking
3733* no caliber roll marking
3865 no caliber roll marking
5001 - 6000 Navy Contract no caliber roll marking
5646 Navy Contract no caliber roll marking
5946 Navy Contract no caliber roll marking
6725* no caliber roll marking

7583* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
7719* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
7787* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
8636* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
8929* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
8939* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
10471 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
12089* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
12286* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
13001 - 14000 Army Contract S&W 38 MIL
13135* S&W 38 MIL (Army Contract)
13262* S&W 38 MIL (Army Contract)
13767* S&W 38 MIL (Army Contract)
14048* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
14669* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
14810 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
15330* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
15851* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
16128* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
16916* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
17085 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
17452* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
17813* S&W 38 MIL Dec 1902 Probably Army contract over-run barrel
18291 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG

19155* no caliber roll marking

19759* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG Feb 1902
20114 .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG
20802* .38 S&W SPECIAL CTG

Thanks for your help, Mike Priwer
 
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Mike,
Thanks for the posts. We can always learn something no matter how old we get. I had only collected the 1899 & 1902 Military variations with standard sights but what I like the most are Target Variations from 1899 to 1905, 4th. I never before paid much attention to the standard sighted models

Thanks for the continuing education credits. :) S&W CFE by Mike Prewar at S&W University. :)

Perhaps these will help your research:

SN: 5501 US Navy M1899 NO caliber markings (barrel is original to gun)

SN: 19593 1899 M&P Target "38 S&W SPECIAL CTG"

SN: 62356 1902 M&P 1st Change Target
on two lines: "38 S&W SPECIAL" (above) "& U.S. SERVICE CTG'S" (below)
 
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DW Johnson

Thanks for this serial number - 179 . From the list I have posted, ths gun would not
have any caliber marking.

Sal (model3sw)

Thanks for the three serial numbers. I'm adding all four of these to the list.

Regards, Mike Priwer
 
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Hi Mike

So does it make sense that my 1899 SN 179, with no caliber markings on the barrel would have been chambered for 38 Special?

Somebody said the very early ones were chambered for the shorter US govt cartridge, which I assume is the same as 38 Long Colt.

Roy told me this one shipped in October of 1899.

38 Special brass clearly chambers all the way, the chambers are long enough for them.

I do not see any evidence of the chambers having been lengthened, they appear original.

You can see photos in the thread I started yesterday.

Thanks.
 
The earliest relevant catalog I have is the 1900 catalog. The gun is called
.38 Military (Model of 1899). The ammunition is .38 S&W Special, US Service Cartridge
(.38 Long Colt), and .32 Winchester Repeating Rifle Cartridge. There was no
separate model for the 32 Winchester; its just an optional chambering. The earlier
guns did not have any caliber marking on the barrel.

As far as I know, and as far as the catalog information is concerned, there
was no .38 Military (Model of 1899) ever offered in only 38 Long Colt. The Army
contract guns are marked .38 MIL.; as far as I know, they chamber both .38 Special
and .38 Long Colt. I could be wrong about that, but I did own an Army at one point,
and I'm reasonably sure that when I cleaned it, .38 Special cartridges seated
correctly in the cylinder, for stabilizing the extractor star.

All .38 chamberings of the Model of 1899 will accommodate the longer
(.38 Special) cartridge, so that is what your's would have been chambered for.
Furthermore, since its not an Army contract gun, and unless it was a special order,
I'm sure it was originally chambered for .38 Special.

Regards, Mike
 
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