I sure let that get past me.
Model of 1905 Fixed Sight Target *Update - SFPD Gun!*
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I sure let that get past me.
Here is the D.W. King rear sight on my Winchester 1873 saddle ring carbine that carries a patent date of March 5, 1907
handejector
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A shoulder stock is the most likely reason for that hole.
Caleb, very neat gun! Definitely some tinkering occurred on it. The drift adjustable rear sight is very neat.
I saw the catalogs (that you and Bengal Fan posted) on eBay. Good scores on those!
Let me know if you need an upper sideplate screw.......
I saw the catalogs (that you and Bengal Fan posted) on eBay. Good scores on those!
Let me know if you need an upper sideplate screw.......
Green Frog
Member
Twenty five or so years ago when I was first getting interested in single shot rifles, I made a concerted effort to gather up as many tang sights for them as I could, mostly Lyman and Marble's manufacture. I recall one opportunity I had to get a King tang sight... it was pretty similar to the style made early on by Marble. I still want to see a top view of a King Super Target rib, but that's for another thread! 
Froggie
Froggie
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Modified
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You nailed it, that's exactly what this is. It just wasn't obvious because the white outline on the King blade is in backwards.
Any idea what the Date on that ad is?
A big thank you to David for kindly sending me the screws:
Last edited:
Green Frog
Member
One question now that I've seen your excellent pictures, I have another question; is the slightly rough looking spot on the frame in front of the left face of the sight blade a little tack weld? Does the rear sight (blade) still adjust for windage by sliding? Regardless, that is a fine looking installation and a very desirable feature to have... I'm kinda green with envy! 
Froggie
Froggie
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Modified
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One question now that I've seen your excellent pictures, I have another question; is the slightly rough looking spot on the frame in front of the left face of the sight blade a little tack weld? Does the rear sight (blade) still adjust for windage by sliding? Regardless, that is a fine looking installation and a very desirable feature to have... I'm kinda green with envy!
Froggie
As to the bit that looks like a tack weld, I want to say yes because that's what it looks like. It seems to have something to do with that hole in the butt of the gun. However it's just on the surface and smooth from what I can see. I think they maybe had a ding on the barrel and figured they would toss a little bit of metal in there while they were filling in the other hole.
As to sliding the sight, I also want to say yes, but it's been in there so long I don't really plan on ever trying to shift it, and if you did you would probably have to modify the gun a bit more. If you notice they had to remove some metal right in front of the blade.
Green Frog
Member
I could see that conversion on 4 1/2" 32 HE. Wow, what a great woods loafing gun that would make! I wonder whether King ever made that blade with a square notch?
Froggie
Froggie
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Modified
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They most certainly did, mine is a square notch here.
Judging by the blade it looks like when they did the job they just selected a blade from their different options to match the front sight.
In fact that's why I am fully convinced King did this. If another gunsmith had done it they wouldn't have bothered putting a King blade in there, all of my other fixed sight targets have blades made by the smith that did the work.
Part of what pleases me so much about this is that now I have an example of a S&W Factory fixed sight target, King, and either one or maybe two other shops/smiths I have yet to identify. I don't know why I like these so much, but its been a fun niche to play around in.
highpower3006
Member
I don't mean to highjack this thread but all this talk about King sights brought to mind a sight I am trying to identify.
I recently bought a 1903 Springfield that has a rear sight slide that no one in the Springfield world seems to be able to identify. I was unaware that King made rifle sights too, although in hindsight it certainly makes sense.
What I would like to know is if there is an illustration of a rear sight slide for a '03 Springfield that looks like this in his catalogs:
There is no name on it anywhere, but it is totally different from any stock arsenal produced slide.Thanks in advance for any info you might be able to provide.
I recently bought a 1903 Springfield that has a rear sight slide that no one in the Springfield world seems to be able to identify. I was unaware that King made rifle sights too, although in hindsight it certainly makes sense.
What I would like to know is if there is an illustration of a rear sight slide for a '03 Springfield that looks like this in his catalogs:
There is no name on it anywhere, but it is totally different from any stock arsenal produced slide.Thanks in advance for any info you might be able to provide.
OP
Modified
Member
King did make a springfield rear sight, but I don't believe it looked like that.
Here's a scan out of a catalog that I had handy (Pacific actually) that had a picture of their springfield/krag sight:
Looking at your sight my first impression wouldn't be King for a couple reasons.
The first is that pretty much everything King I've personally handled said King on it somewhere.
The second is just the somewhat roughness of the surfaces. King was a bit particular, and I think if he made that sight the surfaces would have been polish before the bluing.
Anything with these old sights is of course possible, I'll look through my other catalogs when I get them back from the friend I loaned them to. The only springfield sight that I remember seeing was the one in the upper left of that catalog page.
Here's a scan out of a catalog that I had handy (Pacific actually) that had a picture of their springfield/krag sight:
Looking at your sight my first impression wouldn't be King for a couple reasons.
The first is that pretty much everything King I've personally handled said King on it somewhere.
The second is just the somewhat roughness of the surfaces. King was a bit particular, and I think if he made that sight the surfaces would have been polish before the bluing.
Anything with these old sights is of course possible, I'll look through my other catalogs when I get them back from the friend I loaned them to. The only springfield sight that I remember seeing was the one in the upper left of that catalog page.
Great gun Caleb.
That ramp looks great on it. How did it verify as King? I was a bit skeptical when i saw the backwards rear leaf and the under exposed area under the ramp. Thought maybe a gunsmith ordered the front and back together from king as a set. Either way i would be all over a gun like that. Shows a lot of character.
That ramp looks great on it. How did it verify as King? I was a bit skeptical when i saw the backwards rear leaf and the under exposed area under the ramp. Thought maybe a gunsmith ordered the front and back together from king as a set. Either way i would be all over a gun like that. Shows a lot of character.
OP
Modified
Member
Well, as verified as it can be. I'll change it to verified King Parts, which is correct. The work is very very likely King.
The front and rear sight blades are both King, and the 4 other fixed sight targets I have (which I never thought were King) have a sight blade that was made by the smith or shop that did the job on them.
Considering a blade cost $2, and it was installed backwards (presumably because it was ordered without the white outline), I can't imagine why a random smith would order both the front and rear sight, instead of just making the rear sight.
I can however completely see a King smith just grabbing a blade that was already made, flipping it around to the non white outline side and installing that.
highpower3006
Member
Thanks for checking for me. The sight I have has a platinum line in it which caused me to think that it was made by a professional rather than someone in their garage. I was sure hoping that it was made by King, but that's the way it goes. In the meanwhile, the search goes on.
Interesting thought. But i could see it opposite. If i was already ordering a front blade why would i not just also order the back? The gap width would be perfect and would also save some fabrication time for the frame work. Maybe after seeing the blade in person i changed my mind and had the smith flip it. Also with the past work i have seen on King items its hard for me to picture them installing a blade backwards instead of using a non outlined blade or rebluing one they had.
I think a great clue could be how the front sight pin is pressed at the end. I might think king did most the same way and comparing yours with other king ramp pins could really be another source of information.
I would be very curious where this gun shipped to.
OP
Modified
Member
It's also possible that the sight comes out and it was just flipped after it was put in initially.
I've had 2 king guns now with the sight blades installed with the with outline on the wrong side to see it. I guess some people didn't like them, or maybe just the people who owned these guns before me?
As far as that front pin goes: I agree. Only problem is that I don't know if anyone has an example to compare it to. If anyone has this sight on their gun I would love to see it.
I've had 2 king guns now with the sight blades installed with the with outline on the wrong side to see it. I guess some people didn't like them, or maybe just the people who owned these guns before me?
As far as that front pin goes: I agree. Only problem is that I don't know if anyone has an example to compare it to. If anyone has this sight on their gun I would love to see it.
OP
Modified
Member
Slight update for everyone on this ad page.
It's out of a Stoeger Catalog, probably 1940. I looked through my pile of them and the oldest one I could find in mine was in catalog 30, which also has this ad. I thought that it was 1939, but looking through the catalog I am seeing a lot of Mauser guns for sale, so I'm starting to wonder if it's not a bit earlier.
I'd be interested to find out if anyone has a Stoeger Catalog of an earlier number then 30, to see if the ad is also in there.
