Model of 1905 Nickle???? Now with pics

[UltraCarry45]

Found this at a pawn shop today. A 5 screw 1905 nickle plated appears to be 38 S&W, SN 65XXX might have been six digits, The end on the ejector rod was bigger than the ejector rod, S&W logo on the side plate, Made in USA on the right side in front of the trigger guard.
It had something stamped over the 38 S&W on the right side of the barrel.

Would this be a 38/200? Lend Lease?

Some of the nickle is flaking on the back of the cylinder and is wore off at the top of the back strap probaly from a holster.
Mechanicaly it seems to be in good shape with real good rifling in the barrel.

If the finish isn't original would refinishing it hurt the value?

I can get it for $210 OTD. Maybe $200 if they will do a C&R transfer.

Is this a good price?

 

[UltraCarry45]

Found this at a pawn shop today. A 5 screw 1905 nickle plated appears to be 38 S&W, SN 65XXX might have been six digits, The end on the ejector rod was bigger than the ejector rod, S&W logo on the side plate, Made in USA on the right side in front of the trigger guard.
It had something stamped over the 38 S&W on the right side of the barrel.

Would this be a 38/200? Lend Lease?

Some of the nickle is flaking on the back of the cylinder and is wore off at the top of the back strap probaly from a holster.
Mechanicaly it seems to be in good shape with real good rifling in the barrel.

If the finish isn't original would refinishing it hurt the value?

I can get it for $210 OTD. Maybe $200 if they will do a C&R transfer.

Is this a good price?

 

[smith17]

Ordinarily I would say that getting a solid .38 for 200 bucks is a good deal. A few red flags here, however. Are you prepared to spend the bucks to buy .38 S&W ammo if that is what it is chambered for? Is it actually chambered for that round or whatever is stamped over it? If it is rechambered, is it safe to shoot? If it is re-chambered and peeling original or refinished nickel, it shouldn't hurt the value since it is probably not worth that much. If you are getting it to shoot, you should be able to pick up a legitimate gun without questions about chambering for not much more than that. My opinion only.
Ed

 

[mikepriwer]

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I would have to say that the information
you gave us is not very good.

Is the serial number 5 digits, or 6 digits ? That would make an enormous
difference.

Exactly what is stamped over the caliber roll marking ? This also would
make an enormous difference.

And, this gun could not be 38 S&W if the serial number did not have some
prefix - like a V stamped somewhere in front of the number, on the butt.
If there is a V, then that makes a very big difference also.

You need to get organized, and describe this gun more accurately.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[29-1]

Originally posted by mikepriwer:
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I would have to say that the information
you gave us is not very good.

You need to get organized, and describe this gun more accurately.

Later, Mike Priwer

Mike, is someone having a bad day?
Chuck

 

[mikepriwer]

Chuck

I'll let you decide. Please tell us what you think he is describing-
given the information he presented.

Don't forget - the serial number is either 5 or 6 digits.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[lonewolf]

UltraCarry45; From what you have posted, the gun "appears" to be a renickled Victory Model made for the British Govt. Bbl. length should be 5" from frt. of cyl. to muzzle(unless converted.

These guns were NOT factory nicle plated, and a huge number were "exported" back here in the 50's and 60's. Most had the chambers lengthened to handle the much more popular .38 SPECIAL ammo(some of these conversions were not done well, causing split cases upon firing and some of the guns are not too accurate with .38 Special ammo.

As gar as serial #, there SHOULD be a "V" in front of the SIX digits, on the butt. There should also be a lanyard loop, hole for one, or a plug/weld in the hole on the butt.

I once owned a similar Victory, that had been "nickle plated"- well mine was actually "chromed"

. and was done to maske the gun more "attractive" to U.S. buyers. The British proof marks had been polished out,"somewhat" before the chrome plating.

Bought it for a "beater" I could keep in our unheated "mudroom", or foyer, to greet any unwanted guests! Sold the gun to a co-worker, who was having trouble with his daughters ex boyfriend showing up, "belligerent".

My gun was very accurate, and conversion was well done to .38 Special, and I used handloads with slightly larger diameter bullets, both in .38 S&W and .38 Special.

You have NOT mentioned the grips, and originally these were smooth wood grips, that did NOT cover any part of the frame, abobe the grip straps.

Hope this helps, and $200 is "OK" - IF the gun is mechanically safe and fairly accurate. For $200, you are NOT gonna find too many Colt or S&W revolvers in working condition. Quite a few "off brands",especially the older top breaks in .32 S&W and .38 S&W, can be bought for under $200-but I'd rather depend on an S&W WELL converted Victory, than one of those.

Hope this is of help, and a few more details I mentioned, would help.

IF there was NO "V" before the serial #, and the gun was ORIGINALLY a .38 SPECIAL CTG. , then it would probably be a pre war S&W 1905 M&P model, and a good buy for $200.

Bud

 

[Gary]

I would hold out for a good used model 10. They are easy to find and would provide you with a better more servicable revolver for the money. Keep hitting the pawn shops. You will find one in short order for around $200 - $250.

 

[UltraCarry45]

Went by the pawn shop today for a second look.
Since the NICS has been down in our area this week I was not able to get it today so I put a down payment on it.
Here is some more info.

There are 2 different S.N.'s on the frame. The one under the yoke is 65558 above this number is some kind of mark I couldn't make out. On my Recipt it is listed as 65558 s.
Under the barrel on the flat surface behind the extractor rod there is this # 691xxx. This is also on the cylinder and on the bottom of the grip frame is V 691xxx P. No hole for a lanyard. The grips are K frame factory targets that have been hacked up. They will have to go. It looks like it had Magnas on it at one time. The finish looks new where they would have covered the frame. It's a square frame

It is chambered for the 38 S&W.

On the barrel right side it says 38 S&W CTG.
Over this there is something stamped diagnoly can't make it all out xxxx xx xx 3.5 TON xxxx xx . It looks like it was stamped in the finish. No bulges in the barrel. The paper work says it's a 4.5" barrel but I think it is a 5 or 6 inch.

On the right side of the frame in front of the trigger guard under MADE IN U.S.A. is some kind of mark. Mechanicaly it is in great shape.

It has a hammer block

As far as holding out for a M-10 one of the is on my list to buy. I'm not buying this one because I need a gun. I have plenty. I want it because it is old.

The down side the pawn shop wouldn't sell it to me on my C&R.

 

[DWFAN]

I'd say fugetaboutit. For another $100 you can buy a lot better. You can bet the nickle isn't factory. Look around, take your time. It's not like there aren't a few of these around.
DW

 

[mikepriwer]

Well- that is a lot more informative.

The serial number is V691xxx, and it should be on the butt, on the rear
of they cylinder, and on the flat area under the barrel. The 65558
found inside the crane area is not a serial number - it is an assembly
number, and is not related to the serial number. That P following
the serial number means something but I don't know what ; it is not a
part of the serial number.

The correct grips were never magnas. They were the small uncheckered
walnut.

I have to agree with Paul - forget this gun and look for a better one.
The original finish was a sandblast blue, and typically, there were lots
of machine marks and rough spots. The sandblast covered all that up, but
a decent blue or nickel refinishing would require that all those early
marks be removed, and that gets expensive.

And, if it really is 4.5", then the barrel has been cut. Probably was
originally a 5" gun.

Later, Mike Priwer

 

[UltraCarry45]

Would this be a WWII gun? The barrel doesn't appear to have been cut, I think they measured it from the outside of the frame. As far as the finish and the grips are concerned they will history. a visit to the bead blaster and that nickle is gone. I don't care that much about collector value. It will be a project gun. I will try to make it look like it's supposed to.

I have an old Enfield Mk4 No.1 Lend Lease rifle that was a diamond in the ruff. Bubba got ahold of it and cut half of the stock off it and got rid of the top forearm wood and barrel bands. I bought a new stock set for it stripped the black paint off the metal that the British put on them. Now I have a nice looking rifle. Looks almost like it would have the day it left the Savage plant.

I think this S&W is a diamond in the ruff.

It's to late to forget it, I bought today. Couldn't bring it home since the instant check computers are down and they wouldn't sell it to me on my C&R. I guess this is what it's like buying a gun in a state that has a waiting period.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Speedo2]

Here's what it may have looked like when new, or at least a little newer:

Be sure to look for re-import marks (another value degrader). Interesting and historical guns; they were real sleepers up till around last year in my neck of the woods. A decent Victory could be had for around $150, but recently they've really taken off, like just about everything marked S&W. -S2

 

[UltraCarry45]

I was able to bring it home today. I will try to post some pictures of it this weekend. I was reading in SCSW 3rd edition and on page 142 first column almost at the bottom it mentions the 38/200 and a nickle variation for a comercial order.

On page 140 in the section about the 38/200 I says these also has the "V" in the serial number.

The barrel is 5". It does have a hole for a lanyard . It has a serrated trigger.

SN. V 623xxx

There is no doubt this gun wore a set of Magnas for a long time. You can seethe outline from them. I had an old set of magnas that are in about the same shape as the gun. I know this isn't what came on it but it looks alot better.

I think I will get a letter on it. How do I go about getting a letter?

 

[UltraCarry45]

These are the grips that were on it.