Models 19 without shrouded barrel

[Hannibal Barca]

Now we see in other post a model 19-3 with fixes sights I remember there used to be a special edition of the model 19 without a shrouded barrel. I never have seen a model 19 without shrouded barrel. Does anybody have one of this model 19 without shroud? Or dos anybody know where can I see an image one of those models 19?.

 

[TheGrinch]

im interested to see this too, so bumping

 

[Art Doc]

I vaguely recall somebody showed one. Either a one of a kind factory special order or prototype or a custom job. Not something readily available to us mortals.

Not that i would want one.

 

[Frank237]

I agree with SaxonPig. Not a model that would appeal to me either. I like the ERS models FAR more than the non shroud models.

 

[DWalt]

"Now we see in other post a model 19-3 with fixes(d?) sights"

What would be the difference between that and a Model 13?

 

[Arik]

"Now we see in other post a model 19-3 with fixes(d?) sights"

What would be the difference between that and a Model 13?

Bull barrel?

 

[Alpha Sierra]

"Now we see in other post a model 19-3 with fixes(d?) sights"

What would be the difference between that and a Model 13?

The 19 has a shrouded ejector rod and the 13 does not. IIRC, those 19s were made for the Gendarmerie Nationale of France.

 

[DWalt]

"a model 19-3 with fixes sights I remember there used to be a special edition of the model 19 without a shrouded barrel"

My understanding was that the topic concerned an unshrouded Model 19 with fixed sights. But would a Model 19 ever have fixed sights? I assume you are saying that there was an actual stamped Model 19 with shrouded barrel and fixed sights. I've not heard of that before. Or is it a shrouded barrel Model 13?

 

[Hannibal Barca]

"Now we see in other post a model 19-3 with fixes(d?) sights"

What would be the difference between that and a Model 13?

I was talking about this other thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-revolvers-1961-1980/385037-19-3-france-back.html

But I didn´t wat to alter the course of the conversation, so I open a new thread. Maybe I cause more confusion because I mixed terms.

 

[Hannibal Barca]

"Now we see in other post a model 19-3 with fixes(d?) sights"

What would be the difference between that and a Model 13?

The 19 has a shrouded ejector rod and the 13 does not. IIRC, those 19s were made for the Gendarmerie Nationale of France.

I have always wondering if some other differences between the model 13 and 19 would be the Beefier crane.

I know (thanks this forum) one of the differences between model 19 and model 15 is the model 19 have a beefier crane, but I don´t know if the same difference exist between model 19 and 13, does anybody know?

 

[JCS&W]

"a model 19-3 with fixes sights I remember there used to be a special edition of the model 19 without a shrouded barrel"

My understanding was that the topic concerned an unshrouded Model 19 with fixed sights. But would a Model 19 ever have fixed sights? I assume you are saying that there was an actual stamped Model 19 with shrouded barrel and fixed sights. I've not heard of that before. Or is it a shrouded barrel Model 13?

Well, yeah, there is a M19 with a shrouded barrel and fixed sights that is actually stamped a M19. Here are the pics.

 

[Art Doc]

That's a cool gun.

I thought German cops hated revolvers?

 

[Tom K]

Well, yeah, there is a M19 with a shrouded barrel and fixed sights that is actually stamped a M19. Here are the pics.

Nice. Like a scaled-down 520.

 

[Jim Watson]

I thought German cops hated revolvers?

In the general upgrade of the 1970s when the P5, P6, and P7 were picked to replace mostly .32s with 9mms, there was one tough German agency that really hated to lose its .357s. So not all German cops hated revolvers.

 

[Texas Star]

Well, yeah, there is a M19 with a shrouded barrel and fixed sights that is actually stamped a M19. Here are the pics.

That's the Peruvian gun that Hannibal was asking about in another thread. Note the 19-P model number in the frame where the cylinder is swung out.

Wischo is a big German distributor. Some of those Peruvian order overrun guns must have been sent to Germany.
I think there's also a 2.5 inch barrel version. I saw a photo of both it and a four-inch one like this photo here awhile back,

I don't see how a gun could be a M-19 without the barrel shroud. And as far as I know, only the French and Peruvian orders had fixed sights. Some high-up cop in Peru supposedly commented that his men wanted the barrel shroud because they often hit suspects with their revolvers.
That was cited here some time ago.

Note that the Peruvian (and French) order was for plain Magna service stocks, not the larger target stocks of Goncala alves wood normal on M-19's.

Hannibal, if you have trouble with English measurements, four inches is 10CM or 100mm, if that helps.

Buenas tardas, BTW.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Now we see in other post a model 19-3 with fixes sights I remember there used to be a special edition of the model 19 without a shrouded barrel. I never have seen a model 19 without shrouded barrel. Does anybody have one of this model 19 without shroud? Or dos anybody know where can I see an image one of those models 19?.

I have never seen a Model 19 without the ejector rod shroud. There are three inch Model 19s with adjustable sights, three inch Model 19s with fixed sights, and there are fixed sight Model 19s, called the 19P, but I do not recall a Model 19 of any type without the ejector shroud.

 

[Texas Star]

In the general upgrade of the 1970s when the P5, P6, and P7 were picked to replace mostly .32s with 9mms, there was one tough German agency that really hated to lose its .357s. So not all German cops hated revolvers.

GSG-9 used some S&W M-60's and some .357's but I don't know which .357's. They used some S&W snub .38's when attacking terrorists who'd taken a German airliner to Somalia or a nearby country. I read they found the snub .38 to be lacking in stopping power. I have no idea why they used snub .38's as assault weapons on terrorists aboard the plane.

GSG-9 handles some of the same situations for Germany that SEAL team 6 or what was Delta Force does for the USA or the SAS for the UK. I think the initials stand for Grenzschutzgruppe - 9. A proper German speaker may correct my spelling. ??

French and Austrian elite cops in such counter terror groups also used .357's of several makes, esp. the Manurhin MR-73.
Some of the Austrian examples were sold off several years ago and some reached the USA.

Some Spanish cops also had .357's. I think that with the closing of Star and Astra, Spain has bought 9mm H-K USP's for pistol needs. But I don't know which Spanish cops have them. I'm guessing Guardia Civil, and maybe the Cuerpo General de Policia. No idea about local forces.

Such counter terrorist specialty forces as GSG-9 probably have a very wide choice in weapons, sidearms included. One common thread among many nations is issuing H-K MP-5's for the SMG. My son used one with good effect in Iraq. He said that it was reliable, accurate, and effective at 9mm ranges.

 

[Texas Star]

I have always wondering if some other differences between the model 13 and 19 would be the Beefier crane.

I know (thanks this forum) one of the differences between model 19 and model 15 is the model 19 have a beefier crane, but I don´t know if the same difference exist between model 19 and 13, does anybody know?

I don't think the M-19 has a beefier crane (yoke in S&W terminology) than other K-frame .357's or K-frame .38's. But the steels and heat treatment in .357 guns are stronger than for the .38 guns. Los .357's son mas fuerte. ?? But I think the part is the same size on all K-fame guns. Only the steel and the heat treatment is different. Actually, I'm not even sure if the .357 cranes are differently heat treated, although barrels and cylinders certainly are. The crane/yoke may not be subjected to enough firing pressure for it to need special steels and treatments.

Does anyone here know any different?

The Model 15 is a .38 and differs from the basic Model 10 just by having adjustable sights.

 

[Engine49guy]

The Model 19 / 66 have a slightly longer frame in the yoke to mate with the ejector rod shroud.
Here is a L to R comparison pic showing the differences of the Models 15-1, 14-2 HB and 19-3,
If you look closely the 19 frame is slightly longer in the yoke area.


BTW I have seen 2 exceptions to this rule, the first is the Model 65-5 Ladysmith (below)
No doubt because it has a shrouded ejector rod :


The second is the wide rib Model 67-3 (Below right),
Perhaps S&W decided it was easier to make one frame for both models at some point ?

 

[Texas Star]

The Model 19 / 66 have a slightly longer frame in the yoke to mate with the ejector rod shroud.
Here is a L to R comparison pic showing the differences of the Models 15-1, 14-2 HB and 19-3,
If you look closely the 19 frame is slightly longer in the yoke area.


BTW I have seen 2 exceptions to this rule, the first is the Model 65-5 Ladysmith (below)
No doubt because it has a shrouded ejector rod :


The second is the wide rib Model 67-3 (Below right),
Perhaps S&W decided it was easier to make one frame for both models at some point ?

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, from the length standpoint, it is longer.

Great photos. Thanks.