Modified S&W 1917?
- Thread starter othomas3
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45Wheelgun
Member
Sorta, I have one very similar. There was a period of time when 1917's were cheap surplus, available for $15-25. Many were modified into carrry guns and all sorts of other things. Your's has had the barrel cut, target rear sight added, new front sight. I have no idea what happened to the butt.
You can see the similarities with mine:
You can see the similarities with mine:
45Wheelgun
Member
I also see the cylinder was cut back. That is a bit more rare. The idea behind it was to shorten the "bullet jump" before the bullet hits the forcing cone. The barrel was "set back" or sleeved to let it reach the shortened cylinder. I also have one of these type of modified 1917's, although it has been a bit pimped out...but note the shortened cylinder.
That's a fascinating mod, but I wonder about its legality. If the serial number wasn't transferred from the butt to some other part of the frame,it may be an unnumbered gun at this point. I'd be interested to know if the cylinder, barrel, and back surface of the crane have serial numbers on them, and if they agree.
I don't see any evidence of a lanyard mount in the crater in the butt. Could this have been a commercial 1917? Or could it even have been a .455 Second Model to which someone later added a 1917 barrel? That cylinder looks like its rear face gets a little closer to the recoil shield than in a 1917. The cylinder has probably been cut to 1.3 or 1.35 inches, which is long enough for a .455 cartridge. Or maybe it's a 1917 with a .455 HE/Second cylinder and crane? Would that work?
My take on the hole in the butt is to afford a rest on a ball-top stick. That would give you some stability for a potential longer shot than you might ordinarily try with a 3-1/2 to 4" barrel.
Somebody shortened and widened the hammer spur, too.
I don't quite see the "bullet jump" advantage in a shortened cylinder if you just add the quarter inch at the back of the forcing cone.
I don't see any evidence of a lanyard mount in the crater in the butt. Could this have been a commercial 1917? Or could it even have been a .455 Second Model to which someone later added a 1917 barrel? That cylinder looks like its rear face gets a little closer to the recoil shield than in a 1917. The cylinder has probably been cut to 1.3 or 1.35 inches, which is long enough for a .455 cartridge. Or maybe it's a 1917 with a .455 HE/Second cylinder and crane? Would that work?
My take on the hole in the butt is to afford a rest on a ball-top stick. That would give you some stability for a potential longer shot than you might ordinarily try with a 3-1/2 to 4" barrel.
Somebody shortened and widened the hammer spur, too.
I don't quite see the "bullet jump" advantage in a shortened cylinder if you just add the quarter inch at the back of the forcing cone.
Wyatt Burp
Member
Of course I thought of your gun when I saw the object of this great thread. My thought has always been, the idea of shortening a cylinder for minimum bullet jump for optiman accuracy, but in a short defense gun is an interesting, and expensive custom touch. Maybe these two cool guns are related.I also see the cylinder was cut back. That is a bit more rare. The idea behind it was to shorten the "bullet jump" before the bullet hits the forcing cone. The barrel was "set back" or sleeved to let it reach the shortened cylinder. I also have one of these type of modified 1917's, although it has been a bit pimped out...but note the shortened cylinder.
45Wheelgun
Member
In the case of my gun, the barrel is sleeved and therefore the forcing cone was not lengthened or added to. My cylinder was shortened by .2", othomas3's looks to have a bit more removed.
I didn't make up the "bullet jump" idea, it was put forth by one of the famous gun authors. (can't remember which one) Specifically talked about 1917s.
I see proof marks on the barrel, so this gun went on a European vacation.
45Wheelgun
Member
I can't speak for othomas3's new gun, but both of mine are will shoot a ragged hole at 21'. The blued gun is amazingly accurate considering it's faults.
othomas3, that is a fantastic gun, I am sure you are going to love it. Have you tried it with .45acp in moonclips?
Wyatt Burp
Member
This is a page of Sixguns By Keith. There's the highly modified 1917 Keith said Harrold Croft gave him. Note the shortened cylinder. Keith really praised the accuracy of this gun in that book.
Dave T
Member
45wheelgun,
What an "Kool" barbecue gun. (smiley face goes here)
Dave
What an "Kool" barbecue gun. (smiley face goes here)
Dave
Going back to something said in the lead post, were any 1917s manufactured in .455? The rim on that case is thin, and I would imagine you would need a slightly longer cylinder to make it function properly.
I still think there is a chance that this gun is made of mixed 1917 and .455 HE/Second parts. If that is not possible, I would appreciate it if someone would contribute to my education and explain why.
(Or maybe the .455 story was just false lore. If it shoots .45 ACP now, maybe it always did.)
I still think there is a chance that this gun is made of mixed 1917 and .455 HE/Second parts. If that is not possible, I would appreciate it if someone would contribute to my education and explain why.
(Or maybe the .455 story was just false lore. If it shoots .45 ACP now, maybe it always did.)
I'm adding my contribution to the photos of chopped and bobbed 1917's even though it has been posted before. While it is a little loose, the gun is very accurate. An unknown gunsmith went to a lot of trouble to build this little blaster:
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PZ93C
Member
I have a 3" Colt 1917 and a 4" .455, now .45 Colt, 2nd model.
45Wheelgun
Member
There were not any 1917's made in .455, but there were a handful made in 45 Colt. (Of course we should "never say never" with S&W) There were prewar .455 N-frames, the Mark II hand Ejector. It is possible to put a 1917 barrel on a 2nd model. If converted, most .455's were converted to 45 Colt. I owned a 2nd model that had been converted to .45acp, but that only required the cylinder to be modified to accept moonclips, it retained the original barrel.
My guess is the .455 story is BS. The easiest way to tell would be if the cylinder and the barrel serial numbered together. I guess the first test should be if it will accept a loaded moonclip.
Othomas3 - Under the barrel on the barrel "flat" should be a serial number. The same number should be on the back of the cylinder, as well as the inside of the crane/yoke (visible through one of the cylinder chambers). Can you check your gun to see if those numbers match each other?
Wyatt - Thanks for the Keith reference, that is the book and the photo I was thinking of.
45Wheelgun
Member
The gun looks like it may have been "round butted", changed from a square butt to (probably) a K-frame round butt. That is what happened to the nickel gun above. When they do that, it is easy to just remove the swivel hole (along with the serial number). At one time Brownells sold a jig to use to roundbutt an N-frame.
If you look at the last picture with the gun upside down you can see there is plenty of room there for moonclips, it looks to be standard spacing to me. Pictures of that gap can be deceiving, look at the nickel gun pictured, it looks like there is no gap at all.
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I'm adding my contribution to the photos of chopped and bobbed 1917's even though it has been posted before. While it is a little loose, the gun is very accurate. An unknown gunsmith went to a lot of trouble to build this little blaster:
That's what I need! Can anybody recommend a good 'smith to give my converted .455 HE 2nd that treatment - maybe hard chrome it, too?
Looked over revolver for numbers and marks. Number on barrel flat and inside rear of cyclinder: 128684. Other proof marks described on attached photos.
I believe the hammer is from a later model since it has a wide spur. My Colt 1917 has a thin spur and I would think the S&W 1917 would have the same type.
I believe the hammer is from a later model since it has a wide spur. My Colt 1917 has a thin spur and I would think the S&W 1917 would have the same type.
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DBWesson
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I don't think Smith & Wesson made that gun.
The marks are Spanish and I bet it has V spring and not a Smith spring.
Look at the rounded butt, where would the Smith spring fit?
I think it is a second model made in Spain.
I have six T Locks with the same marks made in Spain.
Take the grips off the gun and send us the pictures.
DBWesson
Buy an S&W Book
The marks are Spanish and I bet it has V spring and not a Smith spring.
Look at the rounded butt, where would the Smith spring fit?
I think it is a second model made in Spain.
I have six T Locks with the same marks made in Spain.
Take the grips off the gun and send us the pictures.
DBWesson
Buy an S&W Book
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