More night muzzle flash pics - courtesy of Hoptob

[nitesite]

Mike (Hoptob) generously shipped me some ammunition to continue with my little photography endeavor of capturing muzzle flashes from some revolver rounds. Thanks, Mike!

He sent me some pretty heavy .38-Spl ammo which I fired from a 2" and 4-inch revolver, and one .357 Magnum load. I had earlier done the Remington R357M1 load and shared it (and others) with you. This time I was able to photograph the R357M2 158-gr SJHP.

Mike's generosity also allowed me to capture the Remington R38S12 "FBI Load" to compare with the R38S14 non-hollowpoint +P LSWC I did earlier, and to also get a photo of the Winchester version of the FBI Load.

Hoptob also sent me the Buffalo Bore #20A 158-gr gas checked LSWCHP and to be honest I went back and forth in my mind whether to shoot it in my no-dash 442 Airweight Centennial which is not rated for +P ammo. But in the end I did, and also shot it in a 4" gun as well. The recoil was nowhere near what I feared it would be and I don't think one round did anything to my lil' trusty 442. Buffalo Bore claims over 1000-fps from a 2" snubbie so it involved some cringing when I pulled the trigger.

And Mike also sent me some samples of a hot +P+ handload he made with Longshot and a 135-gr Gold Dot in .38-Spl cases. I didn't have the nerve or desire to photograph these with my 442 (sorry Mike) but in his defense he specifically asked me to borrow a stronger snubbie if I was going to get a photo of this load.

So there you go, a little background before we get on to the photos. Mike, Thanks for helping me put this little slide show together and for being so generous. We hope many of you will enjoy the results.

 

[ajpelz]

A big thanks to both of you. Great work.

It looks like you have a real winner with that +p+ handload. Any idea about the fps on that?

Thanks for sharing.

 

[45Wheelgun]

I know very little about hand-loading, powders and such, but I LOVE these picture threads. Very cool stuff, keep it up!

 

[bmhiii]

I know very little about hand-loading, powders and such, but I LOVE these picture threads. Very cool stuff, keep it up!

I'm in the same boat as Dave. I've yet to figure out how you get the pictures taken at seemingly the same point of time each round...

 

[Nframe357]

Awesome pics! I'm very impressed that the magnum load has the least flash! 357 loads have come a long way.

 

[Hoptob]

Thank you, Dave!!!

First of, I'd like to thank Dave very much for doing this excellent work! He really gives me way too much credit for the simple act of mailing a few cartridges. Dave on the other hand had devised a well thought through procedure to reproducably record (and share with the rest of us) the muzzle flashes, and he started systematically looking at various commonly used self defense rounds.

Dave's work allows us to move from speculations and vendors' claims to looking at the real data. Time and again we hear that fast powders produce less flash than slow powders, long barrels are better than short barrels, flash suppressed powders are better for SD than canister powders. Is it really so? Is the difference big enough to matter? Now -- thanks to Dave's work -- we can see it for ourselves. And as they say, seeing IS believing.

One of the most interesting and unexpected findings here is how little flash is there in Remington full house 357 magnum loads - both R357M1 and R357M2. One would expect, based on their ballistic performance and handload duplicates, that these rounds are akin to flamethrowers. Turns out it's exact opposite. In reality these excellent rounds, with some of the best ever stopping power scores, make less flash than many of the 38 spl loads. I don't know how Remington manages to do it, but their results speak for themselves.

It was also interesting for me to see how +P+ Longshot handload compares to expensive commercial SD rounds. I developed this load to duplicate muzzle velocity of Speer 135 gr. short barrel 357 magnum load but in 38 special cartridge. It clocks at just over 1000 fps in my 442. Before I saw Dave's pictures, I thought that commercial loads would win hands down because of the flash suppressed powders. Turns out it ain't so...

This thread is one of the 3 threads about muzzle flashes that Dave had started. I'll insert the links to his other threads to make it easier for everyone to see the results.

Link to muzzle flashes of 357 magnum cartridges.
Link to muzzle flashes of 38 special cartridges.

Thank you, Dave, for your excellent work!

Mike

Fine print. I do not recommend that anyone uses handloads for self defense or shoots +P+ loads in any handguns that are not rated for it. If you choose to do so, you will be responsible for all consequences.

 

[vsorrentino]

I am not a photo pro nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I just like to shoot my 1911. Alot...

 

[Hoptob]

Never been to Stony Creek but glad that you enjoy your 1911.

 

[brucev]

I have been shooting mostly .38 Special/.357 Magnum revolvers for 30 years. I have fired such ammunition in 4-6 inch barrels. My personal experience firing either loads in total darkness is nil. In low light, that experience is broader. I had always been of the opinion that .357 Mag. loads produced a much more pronounced muzzle flash that that produced by effective .38 Special loads. I am very much impressed by the demonstrated results using the Rem. R357M2 158 gr. SJHP as fired in the 4" 686. The virtual absence of flash at the cylinder or muzzle is remarkable and impressive. As I will today be visiting a church member in the hospital, I will go by the local gunshop and see if they have that item in stock (yes as the poet said, "hope springs eternal from the human breast...") along with maybe some affordable .40 S&W in something other than 180 gr. FMJ.

Thanks to Mike for contributing the ammunition and Dave for doing the testing and photography that produced this thread. The information is very useful. As I do enjoy hunting hogs and deer, I am thinking that the Rem. load will be a good choice for me to use when I take my M-28 hunting. The results of this thread will be of less application for SD/HD as for that our weapon of choice is a G-22. I would be very much interested to see similar examination of available .40 S&W loads fired from service length barrels demonstrating muzzle flash in low light conditions. Again I express to both Mike and Dave my thanks. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[Schmidty]

Nice images. Here is a friend shooting my 686+ with Winchester 110 grain .357's. My trigger finger was on the shutter button that time.

 

[Spike66]

That is so wicked! Thanks!

 

[Schmidty]

Also, for viewing enjoyment and since someone mentioned flamethrower, here is me shooting a .44 magnum.....someone else took the pic, not as good as if I was behind the shutter they held it open too long causing some blur, but I can't be both places at once.

 

[nitesite]

It was also interesting for me to see how +P+ Longshot handload compares to expensive commercial SD rounds. I developed this load to duplicate muzzle velocity of Speer 135 gr. short barrel 357 magnum load but in 38 special cartridge. It clocks at just over 1000 fps in my 442. Before I saw Dave's pictures, I thought that commercial loads would win hands down because of the flash suppressed powders. Turns out it ain't so...

Mike~

I'm so glad that we were able to compile some interesting results for others to view. Thanks so much for your help!

I've been re-thinking the Longshot load you sent, and how we can actually see what it would "look like" from a snubbie instead of from a 4" service revolver.

I'm going to borrow my father-in-law's stainless 2" J-frame and get "the one photo" that I think a lot of us really want to see. I know I certainly do!

Your load development for a 135-gr Gold Dot @ 1000-fps from a snubbie looked so promising from a 4" gun. I am really amazed at how small the flash signature was. If it holds up with a 2" than you may have just found a near perfect load for many of us!

Since I still have four examples left, I'll either capture the moment with my FIL's steel snub OR I will get the photo using my own Airweight 442.

Best Wishes,

Dave (nitesite)

 

[ajpelz]

Mike~

I'm so glad that we were able to compile some interesting results for others to view. Thanks so much for your help!

I've been re-thinking the Longshot load you sent, and how we can actually see what it would "look like" from a snubbie instead of from a 4" service revolver.

I'm going to borrow my father-in-law's stainless 2" J-frame and get "the one photo" that I think a lot of us really want to see. I know I certainly do!

Your load development for a 135-gr Gold Dot @ 1000-fps from a snubbie looked so promising from a 4" gun. I am really amazed at how small the flash signature was. If it holds up with a 2" than you may have just found a near perfect load for many of us!

Since I still have four examples left, I'll either capture the moment with my FIL's steel snub OR I will get the photo using my own Airweight 442.

Best Wishes,

Dave (nitesite)

THANKS!!! As I said in the beginning, seems like a great load, if not "perfect" as you put it. I am excited to see it out of a 2". You guys both do great work, and are a tremendous help to us all.

Nitesite, please PM me your address info because I would be more than happy to send you loads to test.... specs given beforehand of course

 

[Hoptob]

Hi Dave,

It'd be really great if you borrowed a steel frame snubby for the +P+ and perhaps R357M1 and M2 loads. I'd be careful about using 442 for +P+. I did shoot a handful of them though mine and nothing happened, but you never know. I estimate that this load is in 25,000 psi range.

Mike

 

[brucev]

Nice images. Here is a friend shooting my 686+ with Winchester 110 grain .357's. My trigger finger was on the shutter button that time.

Goodness gracious what a muzzle flash! I don't think a 6" barrel would reduce it. I have one box of the Winchester 110 gr. JHP. The other box I fired at the range. I was not impressed. I think maybe the 110 gr. bullet is just a little bit to light for the .357 Mag. Maybe it might be of some utility in a very short barrel. But right now I'll keep looking for something at least at 125gr. or heavier. Thanks for the picture. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[sniper]

I'm in the same boat as Dave. I've yet to figure out how you get the pictures taken at seemingly the same point of time each round...

Very dark, shutter set for 1 second or more, or "Bulb", open shutter, say "Let 'er rip!" Close shutter immediately after. Check for desired effect, if O.K., repeat.
I think there are no really "flashless" revolver or pistol loads.