Talk about Lightning Striking Twice

[john505]

Dangerous weapon

WoW, what a story my friend. I can't believe that happened with a S&W revolver. The burns are one thing, but what about losing an eye, or the lead leaving that gun at such a speed it takes you out. I owned a S&W model 686 4 inch for years and never had any problems with it. But that is years ago now. I bought the gun in 1983. Maybe the craftmanship was differant 30 years ago. This could verywell be a defect in this model. Still that gun should not have let go like that. A very dangerous situation for the shooter and for everyone standing next to you on the line. The same model gun explodes twice in your hands, its time S&W investigate this before someone gets serious hurt or killed.

John

 

[Cruiser RN]

The first 640 was called"Catastrophic Metal Failure" because the barrel took off and the frame cracked.This critter seems to be that the barrel was overtorqued when assembled @ the factory.I will be totally honest, it will be a cold day in HELL before I count on any S+W Revolver to potentially save my life.We shall see if third time is a charm or curse.....Stay Tuned

 

[ColColt]

I don't plan on buying a 640 but you can bet if I ever have a similar problem as Mike with any other model and a barrel goes sailing downrange it won't be posted here after seeing how he's been given the third degree about it-good grief! It's like he's guilty until proven innocent.

 

[Badkarma 1]

That absolutly SUCKS! Twice a same make and model 640 blows up and with TWO different brands of ammunition!
I've read stories of some of the newer Smith revolvers tossing their barrels due to the two-piece design, and quite frankly I'm a bit leery of buying anything new from them!
I'm about to take possession of a new 642 and will ring the heck out of it! I'll be watching it closely!
Crusier RN; glad your ok, that would have really shook me up! And as for those members that seem to want to play the "prove it" game. Every company at one time or another has put out ****! Recently S&W has hit the wall in QC what with mim parts and new designs of already proven guns! And can well remember the days of LS when some 629s had .41 magnum cylinders and barrels on them!
I could list other reputable manufactures as well. Thing is I don't drink Kool-Aid and until the weapon I purchase has at least 200 rounds thru it I DON'T TRUST IT! Dale

 

[Cruiser RN]

With all the **** I have taken all I can say is "It is what it is" and I thank those who have supported me.As to what happened all you need to do is look @ the pictures and "the thing speaks for itself".It is my humble opinion that the moderators should take a good long look @ this thread to see how this forum is degenerating.This used to be a place where people are always welcome and if disagreements took place they were respectfully discussed.Now flame throwing is done by senior forum members,tolerated by the moderators,and nothing is said or done.This is very very sad.JMHO .......Mike

 

[Cruiser RN]

Here is the way I look @ it.I don't really care what this Alk is.He wasn't being "investigative" he was being accusitory.He was not there to see the burns on my hands which I prevented from being second degree by my emergency treatment.Furthermore to question my honesty that I didn't shoot the gun much because it was polished like all my guns and that there was a issue in taking off the grips so people could see the frame was unnecessary @ best.JMHO This is the last I have to say about ALK's post.

Mike, the ammo-blaming is almost certainly a cheap shot. It doesn't make sense. But there is no sense arguing with them. I believe if I was concerned, as well you might be, I would get the repaired gun back and trade it on something you have more confidence in, whether another S&W or something else. After two of these go-arounds, S&W should have done more to get you back into their camp.

I may be the odd man out here but I have re-read Alk8944's post a couple times. He is a very knowledgeable gunsmith with years of experience with S&W revolvers. Given that background, I took his questions as being more investigative, rather than intending to be insulting to you. Your initial post confused me a bit, too.

Anyway, let us know how this episode is resolved. I can't blame you for not being enthusiastic about S&W's response.

 

[Cruiser RN]

The saga continues.NO gun today on the 22nd so I called S+W.I was told that a supervisor stopped the shipment of the 640 and it is on its way back to S+W.It seems like they are going to give me a replacement Model 36 which is far more acceptable to me.Just maybe after expressing my displeasure last Friday and requesting supervisory intervention it actually accomplished something.....Stay tuned

 

[BCDWYO]

Sounds like the best possible outcome. A Model 36 is what you really want at this point clearly. Hopefully they (should) will ablige.

 

[panamajack310]

Cruiser, I am glad you are getting a new gun...I think S&W should have done that after the first failure...Atleast they are making it right good for you and S&W for doing the right thing...

 

[18DAI]

Sucks that happened to you CruiserRN. Glad you were not injured worse than you were.

I hope you get that 36 from them. Seems the very LEAST they could do! Good luck! Regards 18DAI

 

[Green Frog]

BTW, I also wouldn't mention that "burn" you experienced. Sorry, but IMO if it doesn't raise a blister it isn't a burn, it's just a close call. Most likely that happened due to an instant of flashback when the barrel first seperated from the frame and it's really not an injury worth mentioning. However, it is a notable event that clearly demonstrates the need for using safety glasses because something that causes only a 1/2 hour of irritation to the hand can cause a serious injury to the eye.

Scooter,

You were doing fine until you ventured into medicine, but I have to disagree with you and your opinion. The medical profession classifies burns into three successively worse "degrees" with 1st being the least severe and defined as up to and including reddening of the skin and some edema (swelling.) If there is blistering, this indicates deeper damage and is categorized as a 2nd degree burn. This is not opinion, it's what I taught in basic Red Cross First Aid (before I started teaching Basic Human Anatomy to student nurses.) +1 to Malysh for the following, "According to the Mayo Clinic's website, 1st degree burns do not produce blisters. Blisters start to occur with 2nd degree burns."

CruiserRN, having had a couple of guns come unglued in my hands over the years, I sympathize and join our fellow forum members in congratulating you on your good luck that the injuries to you involved only first degree burns. Another testimony to the importance of wearing protective glasses etc when shooting. When my 38 wad gun (on a Colt Gov't Model) let go, I got a nice splinter of brass right in the middle of my right protective lens!

Froggie

 

[Cruiser RN]

Here is the latest.The 640 got back to them and I am getting a Blued Classic Model 36 as a replacement.They said it may take some time as they do not make many of them but I could care lees how long it takes.I could never put a 640 on my hip and feel comfortable it would be able to function if called upon.I am happy S+W finally listened to me and what I wanted.Let's just say that I lost my patience yesterday and said if pushed farther I would foward the pics of both barrel launchers to every law enforcement agency and say "This could happen to you if you have a 640 BUG." Do you think that might affect your LEO sales?? That statement DEFINATELY got thier attention and it came to good resolution today.Stay Tuned......Mike

 

[handejector]

When you bust a cap and major parts of a gun like the barrel leave the frame, I got no problem with the term "blew up".
That happening twice to you is almost incomprehensible. I'm glad you weren't seriously injured and I certainly understand your chagrin. I've been around shooting and shooters more than 4 decades and I've never known of another person who had the same catastrophic failure TWICE with the same model of gun!
To sum up, we're good up to here- two guns blew up, you got burned, and I don't blame you for being disappointed, angry, and less than confident in S&W's. NO problem.



Here is where our viewpoints diverge seriously:

With all the **** I have taken all I can say is "It is what it is" and I thank those who have supported me.As to what happened all you need to do is look @ the pictures and "the thing speaks for itself".It is my humble opinion that the moderators should take a good long look @ this thread to see how this forum is degenerating.This used to be a place where people are always welcome and if disagreements took place they were respectfully discussed.Now flame throwing is done by senior forum members,tolerated by the moderators,and nothing is said or done.This is very very sad.JMHO .......Mike

Now THAT is exageration.
I saw this thread on the 2nd or 3rd day, so Alk's post had been more than adequately handled in the first 24 hours in my opinion. After almost a month, he has not replied or even tried to defend his statement.
scooter's 'opinion' of burns was simply ignored by most of us, since almost all living people have had a burn that didn't blister.
So, I disagree with your assessment. This board is moderated much tighter than most big gun boards. Opinions differ and eloquence, directness, and terminology varies from individual to individual. This is a very different board from what it was years ago. Removing every dissenting opinion from a discussion board doesn't leave much discussion.
You painted with way too broad a brush there.

 

[Whitter]

I can't resist. What are the lessons we've learned from reading Cruiser's post? 1) what should a shooter look for as warning signs - POI vs. aim point; 2) many recommendations and questions on the care and feeding of your revolver; 3) what else??
Cruiser I hope that you have been well taken care of and that you have run through your personal string of bad luck. Decades ago I was an EMT and we used to joke that bad luck came in 3's.
Personally, I prefer big heavy metal on my hip. Carry choice is 1911 government, but alot depends on your body size and fortunately I can handle one of these in a IWB holster.
Can't beat a good revolver for fun though!
Wishing you good fortune in the future.

 

[Cruiser RN]

You are right I did paint too broad a brush in that post.It was difficult to feel like I was being attacked for just posting what happened and when I saw it was a senior member who was doing it and it being allowed to stand without any comment by you I equated the inaction on your part to be acceptance of the behavior displayed.It took me stating this to get your input.Heck I was reprimanded for putting a link up one time not knowing it wasn't allowed.If that happened I was thinking how in Hades is this being allowed to happen without comment.JMHO......Mike

When you bust a cap and major parts of a gun like the barrel leave the frame, I got no problem with the term "blew up".
That happening twice to you is almost incomprehensible. I'm glad you weren't seriously injured and I certainly understand your chagrin. I've been around shooting and shooters more than 4 decades and I've never known of another person who had the same catastrophic failure TWICE with the same model of gun!
To sum up, we're good up to here- two guns blew up, you got burned, and I don't blame you for being disappointed, angry, and less than confident in S&W's. NO problem.



Here is where our viewpoints diverge seriously:

Now THAT is exageration.
I saw this thread on the 2nd or 3rd day, so Alk's post had been more than adequately handled in the first 24 hours in my opinion. After almost a month, he has not replied or even tried to defend his statement.
scooter's 'opinion' of burns was simply ignored by most of us, since almost all living people have had a burn that didn't blister.
So, I disagree with your assessment. This board is moderated much tighter than most big gun boards. Opinions differ and eloquence, directness, and terminology varies from individual to individual. This is a very different board from what it was years ago. Removing every dissenting opinion from a discussion board doesn't leave much discussion.
You painted with way too broad a brush there.

 

[mc5aw]

Mike ... It would be interesting to hear if S&W offers an explanation for what occurred. Not an excuse ... but an honest explanation. From everything that has been written thus far, I'm erring on the side of a metallurgy problem. Everything else seems to be too coincidental. Keep us posted on the new pistol.

 

[smithnframe]

Makes me wonder about the quality of the newer Smith & Wessons!

 

[turbo38gn]

Makes me wonder about the quality of the newer Smith & Wessons!

Not me, I have confidence as I believe in looking at the big picture. We tend to put S&W under a microscope when it comes to anything built the last 20 years, but tend to hide our head in the sand when it comes to previous models from S&W. This situation, in this thread is probably 1 in a million. It's unfortunate, but no real damage occurred. I'm glad Cruiser is ok, I'm thinking I'll start wearing my shooting gloves more often..

 

[Malysh]

I don't have any firm opinions judging current S&Ws more closely than I do older ones.
I buy nothing newer than mid 1960s S&Ws because I like the looks and finish of older guns more. Especially flat latches and diamond center gripped guns. It's common with folks like me who are getting older to look backwards with nostalgia. The older guns remind us of younger times, or historical times before ours. The only modern feature I have a real negative opinion about is the safety lock. If they had to install one I would have preferred it be more unobtrusive.

As for ignoring any problems of the past that is not the story for all of us. I have a lot of Airweights. The newest is 1962. There's been a lot of posts about cracked frames from barrel over torquing. Then there's the concern about cracked forcing cones on M-19s and M-66s when shooting a lot of lighter 357 magnum loads. It seems like there's a lot of concern about a few issues of the older models. It doesn't matter what side the members take about problems with earlier S&Ws, just the threads and the posts within clearly show it's not ignored and that negative focus is not soley about the newer products. There's plenty of posts to substantiate this. I don't see S&W people hiding their heads in the sand when it comes to asking questions or venting frustration when an older S&W has malfunctioned, broke, or giving them problems.

 

[Cruiser RN]

Guys it is simple STUFF HAPPENS plain and simple.I am probably that 1 in a million case where it happens with the same Model Twice.In the first case it was termed "Catastrophic Metal Failure".In the second we will never know.They attempted to send me the SAME # Frame with a new barrel and NO EXPLANATION.This caused me to go balistic and I said I had a montage of picks of both guns with the email list of every law enforcement agency I could think of and that I was going to send it with the message of How can you allow your officers to carry a S+W 640 as a BUG or Off Duty when this happened to me TWICE? Think long and hard before you trust your officer's lives with guns that do this.This might just put a kink in your LE Sales Don't you think? After this they became much more ammicable to my suggested solution and in the next day I was told the 640 got back to them and I would get my Blued Model 36 on the next production run...