MP Shield .40 blowing up???

[bronconagurski]

I think the problem is reloads with the .40 S&W, but having said that, I read an so called expert who wrote that he would not shoot a .40 with anything over 165 grain. I think that's a good rule for those who are worried. Then shoot the heck out of it.

 

[Magload]

I only EDC with factory ammo but for practice I only feed it reloads and it has eaten over 600 so far. 165gr loaded to match the Critical Defense I carry with. Don

 

[58619owner]

So you don't like S&W because hot ammo blew your gun up and they won't fix it free? Why should they? S&W didn't make the ammo.

It is yet to be determined that it was "hot" ammo. He claims it was 115 grain Winchester white box. That is NOT hot ammo.

 

[BelAir56]

3913 cracked frame

A new .40 shield, no safety, cracked a few days ago while shooting factory ammunition. S&W has sent a return ticket. Based on what I'm reading, however, I have every expectation that Smith won't honor their warranty. It seems every other case I've read, they've kept the weapon and offered to sell the owner a new pistol at a slight discount.

When my 3913 cracked the frame, they never hesitated to replace it with a Shield 9, great piece( hoping the slide loosen up a bit).

 

[PirateJim]

It is yet to be determined that it was "hot" ammo. He claims it was 115 grain Winchester white box. That is NOT hot ammo.

I don't believe Winchester makes a 40S&W in 115 grain.

 

[RobzGuns]

I don't believe Winchester makes a 40S&W in 115 grain.

The person 58619owner is referring to, is GWCustoms, who posted his 9mm Shield blew up with WWB 115gr.

It is yet to be determined that it was "hot" ammo. He claims it was 115 grain Winchester white box. That is NOT hot ammo.

GWCustoms (who you're referencing) was found to be a Troll, posting a generic 'Blow-Up' picture. His post has since been deleted.

To date, there have been NO confirmed Shield9 catastrophic failures and the few CONFIRMED Shield40 catastrophic failures have tracked back to over pressurized ammo... Either unintentional hot factory load (ie: MagTech), intentional Hot load (Buffalo Bore 40 +P... SAAMI doesn't recognize 40+P), or a hot (home done) reload.

The only way to confirm part defect vs ammo though, is to send a sample of the ammo shot, to BOTH the Pistol manufacturer (in this case, S&W) and the Ammo Manufacturer. In the case of the MagTech incident, where the owner did this, S&W and MagTech got together and confirmed that it WAS ammo related and MagTech sent the owner a check for a new Shield.

 

[Prasko]

There was one 9mm shield failure that I know of, and it was proven to be caused by an over charged round, and the ammo manufacturer bought him a new pistol.

Was on another forum.

 

[58619owner]

The person 58619owner is referring to, is GWCustoms, who posted his 9mm Shield blew up with WWB 115gr.


GWCustoms (who you're referencing) was found to be a Troll, posting a generic 'Blow-Up' picture. His post has since been deleted.

To date, there have been NO confirmed Shield9 catastrophic failures and the few CONFIRMED Shield40 catastrophic failures have tracked back to over pressurized ammo... Either unintentional hot factory load (ie: MagTech), intentional Hot load (Buffalo Bore 40 +P... SAAMI doesn't recognize 40+P), or a hot (home done) reload.

The only way to confirm part defect vs ammo though, is to send a sample of the ammo shot, to BOTH the Pistol manufacturer (in this case, S&W) and the Ammo Manufacturer. In the case of the MagTech incident, where the owner did this, S&W and MagTech got together and confirmed that it WAS ammo related and MagTech sent the owner a check for a new Shield.

Correct. I was referencing that pic of the 9mm shield and that member stated he was using WWB. Which I know isn't loaded hot by winchester. If anything most of the 115 grain 9mm WWB shows lower velocities on two different chrono's I have tested it on.
In terms of ammo related failure always send a sample of the ammo in with the lot number, receipt where I purchased it and any other info (pics etc) to the ammo manufacturer and I have had good responses from ammo manufacturers the two times I have had to do that. I just thought it was premature to jump to conclusions before the ammo had been investigated and make claims it was hot ammo that caused that failure.

 

[Prasko]

Winchester also sells nato 9mm at walmart, and that is an over pressured 9mm. Some say equivalent to 9mm +p or +P+

 

[mschaefer223]

I have a side question that pertains to this topic. I'm not really worried about a kaboom happening, but rather lean more towards the excessive wear aspect. Last fall I picked up a 50 round box of Double Tap 200 grain hollow points with for use in my glock 22 during deer season. They're advertised as running 990 fps out of a 3.5" barrel. I've been kicking around which round to use for SD in my .40 Shield, and wondered if anyone would put this round in the "too hot" category, when it pertains to excessive wear?

 

[CaptRon956]

I have a side question that pertains to this topic. I'm not really worried about a kaboom happening, but rather lean more towards the excessive wear aspect. Last fall I picked up a 50 round box of Double Tap 200 grain hollow points with for use in my glock 22 during deer season. They're advertised as running 990 fps out of a 3.5" barrel. I've been kicking around which round to use for SD in my .40 Shield, and wondered if anyone would put this round in the "too hot" category, when it pertains to excessive wear?

990fps is not considered "hot", in fact most .40s&w rounds average in the 1050-1200fps range. The heavier the bullet, the slower it will go & your felt recoil will be more than a faster lighter bullet.

I use 165 gr. Winchester PDX1 defender (1140fps) for my EDC shield 40 and would recommend it..

http://winchesterproductdemos.winchester.com/index.htm?i=17#t

 

[mschaefer223]

990fps is not considered "hot", in fact most .40s&w rounds average in the 1050-1200fps range. The heavier the bullet, the slower it will go & your felt recoil will be more than a faster lighter bullet.

I use 165 gr. Winchester PDX1 defender (1140fps) for my EDC shield 40 and would recommend it..

http://winchesterproductdemos.winchester.com/index.htm?i=17#t

Thanks for the info. Most of the .40 I practice with is of the 165-180 gr. variety. I doubt I would go any lighter for carry ammo. One question though, are the velocities you mentioned for 4.5" duty weapons, or for shorter barrels such as the shield?

 

[CaptRon956]

Thanks for the info. Most of the .40 I practice with is of the 165-180 gr. variety. I doubt I would go any lighter for carry ammo. One question though, are the velocities you mentioned for 4.5" duty weapons, or for shorter barrels such as the shield?

Both Winchester PDX1 Defender & Winchesters "Train & Defend" both use the same PDX1 bullet. I believe the difference is Train & Defend is reformulated to give better results out of a shorter 3" barrel, such as the Shield & the PDX1 Defend is probably tests out of a full size pistol... Both provide very good results in the M&P shield 9 & 40. (I own both!)

http://www.winchester.com/library/news/Pages/winchester-w-train-and-defend.aspx

 

[PirateJim]

I've been using the 165 grain PDX1 lately also and am happy with the way it runs in both my M&Ps. To the best of my understanding the Winchester Train and Defend is designed as a 'reduced recoil' loading, 925 muzzle velocity and 342 ft. lbs. energy with a 180 grain bullet, compared to 1025 fps and 420 ft. lbs. for the 180 grain PDX1. I haven't tried them.

I did try a couple of boxes of Remington Ultimate Defense Compact Handgun ammo. It too is 180 grain, not sure of velocity and energy, but they claim to use a 'special' bullet that expands consistently at lower velocities that shorter barrels will produce. I've not seen any independent review of this, and didn't stick with them because I like the simplicity of having one SD brand for both of my primary SD guns.

Yes, we're drifting off from the stated topic of this thread, but that is probably just as well.

 

[Prasko]

I've now put near 250 rounds of speer 124 +P through my shield, and near 500 rounds of mixed 115 range ammo.

I carry 124 gdhp +P so I want to make sure it cycles and functions correctly.

Not one hiccup and ffs this thing is infinitely more accurate then I am.

 

[mschaefer223]

I've been using the 165 grain PDX1 lately also and am happy with the way it runs in both my M&Ps. To the best of my understanding the Winchester Train and Defend is designed as a 'reduced recoil' loading, 925 muzzle velocity and 342 ft. lbs. energy with a 180 grain bullet, compared to 1025 fps and 420 ft. lbs. for the 180 grain PDX1. I haven't tried them.

I did try a couple of boxes of Remington Ultimate Defense Compact Handgun ammo. It too is 180 grain, not sure of velocity and energy, but they claim to use a 'special' bullet that expands consistently at lower velocities that shorter barrels will produce. I've not seen any independent review of this, and didn't stick with them because I like the simplicity of having one SD brand for both of my primary SD guns.

Yes, we're drifting off from the stated topic of this thread, but that is probably just as well.

No, I'd say we're still on topic. I'm just trying to make sure I don't feed my pistol something that causes premature wear problems or any other catastrophic problems. I appreciate all the insight I can get. I'm going to try and get by a few LGSs and see what I can come up with to try.

 

[Dvan34]

Every month or so the same old claims come up. It's like deja vu... IMHO, if there was an issue, it would be present in the thousands of Shield 40s already sold instead of only in the amount of cases that can be counted on one or two hands. More than likely, the shooters used a hot load...

And if that were the case wouldn't S&W be sending out warnings and recalls?

 

[WR Moore]

Just to stir the pot a mite, the FBI stayed with their 10mm lite load for so long because of excessive pressure spikes observed (by piezo-electric pressure gauges) in .40 S&W with a 180 gr JHP and the same velocity as the lite 10mm.

The pressure spikes didn't exist in 165 gr JHP ammunition, which Federal developed expressly for the FBI.

Now, also consider the number of warnings about repeat chambering of duty ammo, causing bullet setback. Bullet setback can greatly increase chamber pressure even if all other factors are normal. As a rule of thumb, you shouldn't chamber any defensive load more than 4-5 times. If the case has a cannelure to limit bullet setback you may get away with more, but you should visually check your OAL. If you can see a difference, that round should be discarded.